changing line sets when going to 410 -- I don't think so

[beenthere]

In the least, it should cover the homeowner for the labor charge for a part that failed in the extended warranty period due to inadequate cleaning of the lines. The replacement part itself should be covered by the installer if there is no mfg defect.

No.
It does not cover and parts or labor for improper installation, use or neglect.

If the manufacturers instructions say the line set muxt be changed, and they are not. It voids warranty.

Same as a new cars motor is not covered under warranty if you drive it with only water in the rad, and the block freezes.

Read the warranty..

[gary_g]

No.
It does not cover and parts or labor for improper installation, use or neglect.

If the manufacturers instructions say the line set muxt be changed, and they are not. It voids warranty.

Same as a new cars motor is not covered under warranty if you drive it with only water in the rad, and the block freezes.

Read the warranty..

So the installer is not accountable at all to the customer if there is a problem caused by the installation? I understand that the mfr is not accountable.

[beenthere]

So the installer is not accountable at all to the customer if there is a problem caused by the installation? I understand that the mfr is not accountable.

I didn't see the part were you said by installer.
Just the part about the cover labor, and since the post you quoted said manufacturer. thats the part I answered.

[frank slusher]

In the long run, if there is any way to run a new line set you will be better off. With higher operating pressures, old marginal joints may leak. The possibility of a trap in the line holding mineral oil that will eventualy make it back to the compressor. Then the moisture absorbing nature of ester oil alone should be reason enough.
The cheapest guy in town won't be using $150 can of flush. Pay extra for new copper. Once the system is contaminated there is no putting the genie back in her bottle.

[beenthere]

Edit out your pricing.
No prices of systems, labor or parts allowed.

[dash]

We have installed a great number of Puron/R410a systems,we see TXV "tar" failures in new construcion and replacement ,new copper in RNC ,and old copper reused in replacement.

We have sold these systems since the late 1990,s,and never noticed a TXv issue until 2006 when so many manufacturers went with TXV's for the 13 SER minimum.

I wish some one would determine what the "tar" like substance is caused by.If we only found it in RNC or replacements ,I agree that it could be the copper/mineral oil,but that's not the case.

[machery]

If it's a 22 to 410 change-out, the line set GETS CHANGED unless it's absolutely prohibitive, then it gets flushed with the Rx11. No chances or risks taken if avoidable.

[Llama]

If it's a 22 to 410 change-out, the line set GETS CHANGED unless it's absolutely prohibitive, then it gets flushed with the Rx11. No chances or risks taken if avoidable.

Seems to make sense to me based on this thread and forewarned is forearmed.

If I did not open this thread this morning and the installer reused the lines tomorrow, as specified by the contractor/engineer in the proposal, who bears the cost of replacement/reinstallation down the road if a problem pops up? Who should bear it?

What steps should the homeowner take to reduce his exposure if the installer uses a "controversial" installation method, specifically reuse of R22 line (irregardless of cleaning mechanism) vs replacement? If the extended warranty is not the correct instrument then what is?

[beenthere]

Foolow manufacturer install instructions.

[Llama]

Foolow manufacturer install instructions.

I'm not communicating something well I guess.

How does the homeowner determine if the manufacturer's install instructions have been met? In this example, what are Carrier's install instructions?

As I have said above, the installer appears to be planning on reusing the existing lines, knowing full well that the old set is R22 and that the new set is R410a.

I fully plan on being down in the basement with the installer the entire time, but other than a few specific items I have read about here I will have no idea what to ask him or if he is doing what he says.

How do I determine if the manufacturer's install instructions have been met? How do I protect myself from the installer failing to comply with the manufacturer's install instructions?

"Pick a good installer" is certainly insufficient because what that usually means is "Pick an installer as good as me"; neither recommendation actively protects the homeowner from installer error.

[beenthere]

Carrier doesn't require new line set. I believe they are the one that doesn't want RX11 flush used either, just a nitro blow out.

Ask the installer what the install instructions say about re using the old line set.
Its your system, your money.

[Skip 2 my lou]

My install is tomorrow for a 410a pump from a R22. Should I ask the installer how he plans on prepping the existing lineset? I know they plan on reusing it as the contractor commented that the lines were the correct size due to the high efficiency of the old unit I am replacing.

The horizontal run of the lines are critical because they can form oil pockets (Per Lennox Tech Support). Replacing the horizontal section of the lines and clearing the lines with dry nitrogen is also an option.

IMHO the flush does a better job, but both ways are proven to work if done correctly. The dollar amount is close either way as long as the horizontal section (line set) is a reasonable distance.

[mook531]

Is it that hard to change your line set? if everything is accesable then i don't understand why you wouldn't want to. half the line sets i run dont even need a full roll and can be done with leftover from the last job( provided it was sealed after being cut). i have done a bunch without changing it where it could not be done without cutting open walls, and have not had a problem yet, but we take extra precations. but if it can be done, why not do it? you're spending enough as it is, why cheap out now?

[Skip 2 my lou]

Is it that hard to change your line set? if everything is accesable then i don't understand why you wouldn't want to. half the line sets i run dont even need a full roll and can be done with leftover from the last job( provided it was sealed after being cut). i have done a bunch without changing it where it could not be done without cutting open walls, and have not had a problem yet, but we take extra precations. but if it can be done, why not do it? you're spending enough as it is, why cheap out now?

It's not that hard to change them, and I just said the cost could be them same in either case. I wouldn't call it cheaping out, we were just discussing options.

Both options work and both are right. Having more than one option....priceless.

[RyanHughes]

What's the typical course of action you guys take when there is a finished basement with refrigerant lines under the wall? Do you typically just leave it and flush it, or have you ever cut portions of the drywall out to "fish" the lineset through?

[emcoasthvacr]

blowing out the line sets & evacuating the system should be fine. I also installed a drier before the txv.

I have a small temperature drop on the driers, probably from the oil mixture, but it isn't bad. I plan to remove the drier downstream of the txv & replace the liquid line drier during PM next March.

For me, it's a lot more cost effective to do a pull down & change driers than buy a line set & put it in.

You can pull as many vacuums as you want and still have problems. The bottom line is you have to remove the old oil from the system. Vac pumps don't remove oil. Driers can catch some sludge, but that is a band-aid. If I had to chose between a vacuum and a nitrogen on a change over, it would be nitrogen everytime. R-11 flush is way better than nitrogen, and made for the task at hand, why not do it?

If my customers can't afford R-11 flush, it's very likely they can't afford for me to be there. And the problem is....?

[Twilly]

blowing out the line sets & evacuating the system should be fine. I also installed a drier before the txv.

I have a small temperature drop on the driers, probably from the oil mixture, but it isn't bad. I plan to remove the drier downstream of the txv & replace the liquid line drier during PM next March.

For me, it's a lot more cost effective to do a pull down & change driers than buy a line set & put it in.

Twilli is proud of you, this guarantees future work.

[aintitfun]

emcoasthvacr, You think it is more cost effective to go back and change driers, than just using the proper method of rx11 flush! Is it really that difficult and expensive to do it right? You readilly admit that you think you have seen some signs that you are mixing the oils, but what the hell , its just a little temperature drop across driers! Whats next, ditching the vacum pump, it would save you time, and lets face it, those vacum pumps are not cheap, its only a little moisture/non-condensables, I know we can just change the driers out at pm time. COME ON!

[Twilly]

emcoasthvacr, You think it is more cost effective to go back and change driers, than just using the proper method of rx11 flush! Is it really that difficult and expensive to do it right? You readilly admit that you think you have seen some signs that you are mixing the oils, but what the hell , its just a little temperature drop across driers! Whats next, ditching the vacum pump, it would save you time, and lets face it, those vacum pumps are not cheap, its only a little moisture/non-condensables, I know we can just change the driers out at pm time. COME ON!

Twilli says leave him alone he's a PE and your a PEON. Us bottom feeders don't know all them nifty tricks

[RyanHughes]

Us bottom feeders

Twilli's new favorite phrase?