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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    va
    Posts
    800
    If it's a 22 to 410 change-out, the line set GETS CHANGED unless it's absolutely prohibitive, then it gets flushed with the Rx11. No chances or risks taken if avoidable.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by machery View Post
    If it's a 22 to 410 change-out, the line set GETS CHANGED unless it's absolutely prohibitive, then it gets flushed with the Rx11. No chances or risks taken if avoidable.
    Seems to make sense to me based on this thread and forewarned is forearmed.

    If I did not open this thread this morning and the installer reused the lines tomorrow, as specified by the contractor/engineer in the proposal, who bears the cost of replacement/reinstallation down the road if a problem pops up? Who should bear it?

    What steps should the homeowner take to reduce his exposure if the installer uses a "controversial" installation method, specifically reuse of R22 line (irregardless of cleaning mechanism) vs replacement? If the extended warranty is not the correct instrument then what is?

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,594
    Foolow manufacturer install instructions.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Foolow manufacturer install instructions.
    I'm not communicating something well I guess.

    How does the homeowner determine if the manufacturer's install instructions have been met? In this example, what are Carrier's install instructions?

    As I have said above, the installer appears to be planning on reusing the existing lines, knowing full well that the old set is R22 and that the new set is R410a.

    I fully plan on being down in the basement with the installer the entire time, but other than a few specific items I have read about here I will have no idea what to ask him or if he is doing what he says.

    How do I determine if the manufacturer's install instructions have been met? How do I protect myself from the installer failing to comply with the manufacturer's install instructions?

    "Pick a good installer" is certainly insufficient because what that usually means is "Pick an installer as good as me"; neither recommendation actively protects the homeowner from installer error.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,594
    Carrier doesn't require new line set. I believe they are the one that doesn't want RX11 flush used either, just a nitro blow out.

    Ask the installer what the install instructions say about re using the old line set.
    Its your system, your money.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    352
    Quote Originally Posted by Llama View Post
    My install is tomorrow for a 410a pump from a R22. Should I ask the installer how he plans on prepping the existing lineset? I know they plan on reusing it as the contractor commented that the lines were the correct size due to the high efficiency of the old unit I am replacing.
    The horizontal run of the lines are critical because they can form oil pockets (Per Lennox Tech Support). Replacing the horizontal section of the lines and clearing the lines with dry nitrogen is also an option.

    IMHO the flush does a better job, but both ways are proven to work if done correctly. The dollar amount is close either way as long as the horizontal section (line set) is a reasonable distance.

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South Amboy, NJ
    Posts
    313
    Is it that hard to change your line set? if everything is accesable then i don't understand why you wouldn't want to. half the line sets i run dont even need a full roll and can be done with leftover from the last job( provided it was sealed after being cut). i have done a bunch without changing it where it could not be done without cutting open walls, and have not had a problem yet, but we take extra precations. but if it can be done, why not do it? you're spending enough as it is, why cheap out now?

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    352
    Quote Originally Posted by mook531 View Post
    Is it that hard to change your line set? if everything is accesable then i don't understand why you wouldn't want to. half the line sets i run dont even need a full roll and can be done with leftover from the last job( provided it was sealed after being cut). i have done a bunch without changing it where it could not be done without cutting open walls, and have not had a problem yet, but we take extra precations. but if it can be done, why not do it? you're spending enough as it is, why cheap out now?
    It's not that hard to change them, and I just said the cost could be them same in either case. I wouldn't call it cheaping out, we were just discussing options.

    Both options work and both are right. Having more than one option....priceless.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    DC Metro Area (MD)
    Posts
    3,371
    What's the typical course of action you guys take when there is a finished basement with refrigerant lines under the wall? Do you typically just leave it and flush it, or have you ever cut portions of the drywall out to "fish" the lineset through?

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Emerald Coast, FL 30.1N 85.8W
    Posts
    681

    Nitro purge & evac should do it

    blowing out the line sets & evacuating the system should be fine. I also installed a drier before the txv.

    I have a small temperature drop on the driers, probably from the oil mixture, but it isn't bad. I plan to remove the drier downstream of the txv & replace the liquid line drier during PM next March.

    For me, it's a lot more cost effective to do a pull down & change driers than buy a line set & put it in.


    Quote Originally Posted by Skip 2 my lou View Post
    You can pull as many vacuums as you want and still have problems. The bottom line is you have to remove the old oil from the system. Vac pumps don't remove oil. Driers can catch some sludge, but that is a band-aid. If I had to chose between a vacuum and a nitrogen on a change over, it would be nitrogen everytime. R-11 flush is way better than nitrogen, and made for the task at hand, why not do it?

    If my customers can't afford R-11 flush, it's very likely they can't afford for me to be there. And the problem is....?

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    12,914
    Quote Originally Posted by emcoasthvacr View Post
    blowing out the line sets & evacuating the system should be fine. I also installed a drier before the txv.

    I have a small temperature drop on the driers, probably from the oil mixture, but it isn't bad. I plan to remove the drier downstream of the txv & replace the liquid line drier during PM next March.

    For me, it's a lot more cost effective to do a pull down & change driers than buy a line set & put it in.

    Twilli is proud of you, this guarantees future work.
    No Heat No Cool You need Action Fast

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    623
    emcoasthvacr, You think it is more cost effective to go back and change driers, than just using the proper method of rx11 flush! Is it really that difficult and expensive to do it right? You readilly admit that you think you have seen some signs that you are mixing the oils, but what the hell , its just a little temperature drop across driers! Whats next, ditching the vacum pump, it would save you time, and lets face it, those vacum pumps are not cheap, its only a little moisture/non-condensables, I know we can just change the driers out at pm time. COME ON!

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    12,914
    Quote Originally Posted by aintitfun View Post
    emcoasthvacr, You think it is more cost effective to go back and change driers, than just using the proper method of rx11 flush! Is it really that difficult and expensive to do it right? You readilly admit that you think you have seen some signs that you are mixing the oils, but what the hell , its just a little temperature drop across driers! Whats next, ditching the vacum pump, it would save you time, and lets face it, those vacum pumps are not cheap, its only a little moisture/non-condensables, I know we can just change the driers out at pm time. COME ON!

    Twilli says leave him alone he's a PE and your a PEON. Us bottom feeders don't know all them nifty tricks
    No Heat No Cool You need Action Fast

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