changing line sets when going to 410 -- I don't think so
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  1. #1
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    Question changing line sets when going to 410 -- I don't think so

    I did a changeout from 22 to 410 about 6 months ago and kept the old line set in -- I did a triple evac and pulled the final leg down to 50 microns, opened up the valves, and she purred like a kitten.

    I was in the area today and did a quick check, and she was still purring like a kitten with normal operating ranges.

    Some contractors at the supply house say they change line sets and some say to put in liquid & suction driers -- I say screw that.

    What do you say?

  2. #2
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    We've recently seen a spike in R-410A TEV "failures". R-410A systems are now reaching the installer masses. Such is the nature of our business.

  3. #3
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    In the R410A class, they said if you use the existing lineset, it needs to be flushed.

  4. #4
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    we change lineset 99% of the time, 410a or not. Just one more thing to mess it all up. Why take the chance. You install it/you own it, at least for warranty period.

  5. #5
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    I only replace the line-set because copper fatigues and i dont want, Or want my new system,inheriting a leak. I charge the customer and change line-sets where applicable. I was told in 410 classes also as stated below, That you do not have to change the line set but you MUST flush them to assure everything is good for the POE oil.

  6. #6
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    There used to be a guy come here that actually worked for DuPont and told me one time in a thread like this, that if you flush the lines good that the mineral oil left in the lines if you did not get it all completely out will not be enough to hurt anything. I wished I could remember his name, I know some of the long timers here know who I am talking about, I just had a brain lock and I just can't remember his name.
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  7. #7
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    Twilli just hack it in
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by emcoasthvacr View Post
    I did a changeout from 22 to 410 about 6 months ago and kept the old line set in -- I did a triple evac and pulled the final leg down to 50 microns, opened up the valves, and she purred like a kitten.

    I was in the area today and did a quick check, and she was still purring like a kitten with normal operating ranges.

    Some contractors at the supply house say they change line sets and some say to put in liquid & suction driers -- I say screw that.

    What do you say?
    You can pull as many vacuums as you want and still have problems. The bottom line is you have to remove the old oil from the system. Vac pumps don't remove oil. Driers can catch some sludge, but that is a band-aid. If I had to chose between a vacuum and a nitrogen on a change over, it would be nitrogen everytime. R-11 flush is way better than nitrogen, and made for the task at hand, why not do it?

    If my customers can't afford R-11 flush, it's very likely they can't afford for me to be there. And the problem is....?

  9. #9
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    Nitro purge & evac should do it

    blowing out the line sets & evacuating the system should be fine. I also installed a drier before the txv.

    I have a small temperature drop on the driers, probably from the oil mixture, but it isn't bad. I plan to remove the drier downstream of the txv & replace the liquid line drier during PM next March.

    For me, it's a lot more cost effective to do a pull down & change driers than buy a line set & put it in.


    Quote Originally Posted by Skip 2 my lou View Post
    You can pull as many vacuums as you want and still have problems. The bottom line is you have to remove the old oil from the system. Vac pumps don't remove oil. Driers can catch some sludge, but that is a band-aid. If I had to chose between a vacuum and a nitrogen on a change over, it would be nitrogen everytime. R-11 flush is way better than nitrogen, and made for the task at hand, why not do it?

    If my customers can't afford R-11 flush, it's very likely they can't afford for me to be there. And the problem is....?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by emcoasthvacr View Post
    blowing out the line sets & evacuating the system should be fine. I also installed a drier before the txv.

    I have a small temperature drop on the driers, probably from the oil mixture, but it isn't bad. I plan to remove the drier downstream of the txv & replace the liquid line drier during PM next March.

    For me, it's a lot more cost effective to do a pull down & change driers than buy a line set & put it in.

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  11. #11
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    emcoasthvacr, You think it is more cost effective to go back and change driers, than just using the proper method of rx11 flush! Is it really that difficult and expensive to do it right? You readilly admit that you think you have seen some signs that you are mixing the oils, but what the hell , its just a little temperature drop across driers! Whats next, ditching the vacum pump, it would save you time, and lets face it, those vacum pumps are not cheap, its only a little moisture/non-condensables, I know we can just change the driers out at pm time. COME ON!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by aintitfun View Post
    emcoasthvacr, You think it is more cost effective to go back and change driers, than just using the proper method of rx11 flush! Is it really that difficult and expensive to do it right? You readilly admit that you think you have seen some signs that you are mixing the oils, but what the hell , its just a little temperature drop across driers! Whats next, ditching the vacum pump, it would save you time, and lets face it, those vacum pumps are not cheap, its only a little moisture/non-condensables, I know we can just change the driers out at pm time. COME ON!

    Twilli says leave him alone he's a PE and your a PEON. Us bottom feeders don't know all them nifty tricks
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  13. #13
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    i'd rather change line sets than r11 flush

    when I quote the customer the cost of a new line set, it's definitely cheaper for the customer for me to spend an hour or so to change driers and vacuum down during PM -- the customer pays for the driers & extra time.

    Nitrogen purge will get most of it out, and a few degrees drop on a drier doesn't brake my heart either. I'm scared to not change line sets on Carrier's performance or Infinity systems.

    I save the customer several hundred dollars, and I get a PM contract

    I love it

    Quote Originally Posted by aintitfun View Post
    emcoasthvacr, You think it is more cost effective to go back and change driers, than just using the proper method of rx11 flush! Is it really that difficult and expensive to do it right? You readilly admit that you think you have seen some signs that you are mixing the oils, but what the hell , its just a little temperature drop across driers! Whats next, ditching the vacum pump, it would save you time, and lets face it, those vacum pumps are not cheap, its only a little moisture/non-condensables, I know we can just change the driers out at pm time. COME ON!

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