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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    16

    Carrier Evaporator Coils

    I am a fairly large Carrier dealer in Midwest. I am familar with the law suit on the variable speed furnaces. What bothers me is the factory is getting away with a way more serious problem making evaporator coils that are garbage. Just recently we have had a rash of them 12-18 months old with long time customers. We can not bill these people and we have to eat the labor meanwhile while it is hot we can be doing a profitable job. I have heard that Trane has had the same problem. Dealers (the little guys) ought to unite and bill the distributor or the factory for our time. I have been in the business since 1972 and the only product I can remember having this amount of problems where Lennox heat pumps in mid 70's.

    I would like other dealer comments on this to make sure it is a widespread problem.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Coil failures seem to be up for all brands from years ago.manufacturers still say 33% of coils returned aren't leakers.

    Carrier now has tin plated coils availale,should help.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Ft.Worth,Tx
    Posts
    4,584

    Carrier ~ and others also.

    I think that , when manufactures see $$$$$ signs they build cheap coils,we also have had a few Carrier coils bad and these are in the past 2 years, but, I think that Carrier's product line change had allot to do with coil problems.And they do have tin plated coils available now.

    I worked on Trane/American Standard for several years and also had problems with 2.0-3.0 coils, and Commandaire 2.0 coils ;I can't count how many of them I replaced.

    Quick fix is pump down , install drier in 3/8" line at coil and use a b-tank torch with small oxy rig, with nitrogen flow, using torch to locate small leaks works everytime.
    "Everyday above ground, is a good day".
    "But everyday that you have made a difference in someones life, may insure you stay above ground a little longer".<aircooled>

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    6,321
    Quote Originally Posted by Doubled8 View Post
    I am a fairly large Carier dealer in Midwest. I am familar with the law suit on the variable speed furnaces. What bothers me is the factory is getting away with a way more serious problem making evaporator coils that are garbage. Just recently we have had a rash of them 12-18 months old with long time customers. We can not bill these people and we have to eat the labor meanwhile while it is hot we can be doing a profitable job. I have heard that Trane has had the same problem. Dealers (the little guys) ought to unite and bill the distributor or the factory for our time. I have been in the business since 1972 and the only product I can remember having this amount of problems where Lennox heat pumps in mid 70's.

    I would like other dealer comments on this to make sure it is a widespread problem.
    Carrier has had problems with their coils for years; hopefully the new tin plated coils have addressed the problem. Trane has also had serious evap. coil problems mostly the TXC, they have pinned their hopes on all aluminum technology.

    There is a remedy for your losing money on replacing them but it is too late for you. I sell a 10-year P&L warranty on every job it is not an option. It is a good option for your customer but more importantly protects you. I feel for you being stuck with this problem but I see at you being shortsighted. Many contractors including those on this site think that long term warranties are bad for our industry. I don't I see it as a way to lock in a customer to you long time, protects their interest and the contractors interest. You will not get rich off the warranty rates but you don't lose money or lose a customer.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    101

    Whoa!

    I have a Carrier variable speed furnace. What's this about a law suit? Is it likely to go up in flames like the Aprillaire air cleaners?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,597
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony0945 View Post
    Is it likely to go up in flames like the Aprillaire air cleaners?

    The Aprilaires didn't "go up in flames".

    I don't know about the Carrier thing, anyone have a link?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Naples, Fl
    Posts
    889
    doubled8 i don't know what fairly large means but if you get the carrier news letter you've at least read/know dash. his relationship with carrier will probably be significantly differant than yours and mine. are you having more problems with r410a product or r22? i have had my rump stretched over a 55 gallon drum with my long time customers over coil leaks. we've had the carrier factory field tech to more than one of our problem installs. they have yet to be able to hang anything on our workmanship(system design)

    as of last month we are no longer a carrier dealer because of my contempt for their lack of responsibility. as to the percentage of leakers all of our warranty claims are scrap in field but i'll put a millon dollar home on the water in naples florida up against their findings and our failures.

    i feel like that guy from th x-files sometimes. the truth is out there.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Amory Mississippi
    Posts
    1,002
    I have been asking the same question about the carrier slab coils. One poor customer had the first evap changed at 2 years and that coil started leaking at the same area 11 months later.
    All 410 evaps making me wonder WTF is going on. Most of the evaps are under 2 years old. when did carrier start tin plating the evaps. I am sure carrier knows about it, just like Rheem/Ruud knew about the expansion valve problems but pretended not to.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Naples, Fl
    Posts
    889
    Quote Originally Posted by gsxrsquid View Post
    I have been asking the same question about the carrier slab coils. One poor customer had the first evap changed at 2 years and that coil started leaking at the same area 11 months later.
    All 410 evaps making me wonder WTF is going on. Most of the evaps are under 2 years old. when did carrier start tin plating the evaps. I am sure carrier knows about it, just like Rheem/Ruud knew about the expansion valve problems but pretended not to.
    Tinned coils have been available for sometime now but because of the limited market of air handlers they were the last to come on line. Furnace coils and package units were available first. Then couple this with the factory and factory owned florida distributor having a pi$$ing contest over the cost differance. Up until 2007 carrier was the largest revenue generator of UT. UT a Fortune 100 (in the top 50) company, UT a Fortune Global 500 (in the top 150)company. But who bears the burden of their moral and ethical bankrupcy? The unwitting consumer and contractor. How energy efficienct is this really? Carrier North America needs to wake up and smell what they're shoveling. I'm up to the challenge if they are on any front.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Amory Mississippi
    Posts
    1,002
    The owner has made it a point to let the local carrier rep know what is going on and he wants carrier to pay for the coil and installation.
    To add insult to injury this poor customer had a leaking line set before the first coil went bad and had to pay for a new one. he doesn't think he wants another carrier. lol

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    139
    The first hot spell this year we had 12 leaking coils. No more Carrier garbage going in!!! They had their chance...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    352
    Quote Originally Posted by heatingairman View Post
    The first hot spell this year we had 12 leaking coils. No more Carrier garbage going in!!! They had their chance...
    The old ce3axa thin copper garbarge. The strange thing is Carrier offers an upgraded version of this same coil for about 30 bucks more that doesn't leak. BUT, YOU CAN'T GET THE UPGRADE COIL IF IT IS A WARRANTY. So, you have to put in another leaker till they run out of the d#@m things.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    139
    Quote Originally Posted by Skip 2 my lou View Post
    The old ce3axa thin copper garbarge. The strange thing is Carrier offers an upgraded version of this same coil for about 30 bucks more that doesn't leak. BUT, YOU CAN'T GET THE UPGRADE COIL IF IT IS A WARRANTY. So, you have to put in another leaker till they run out of the d#@m things.
    EXACTLY!!! Why would you put in another BAD coil. I guess you have to buy "the best" coil they have to offer...????

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