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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    96
    Look at XC16 or XC21 from Lennox. If you use existing air handler make sure contactor flushes properly and uses R410 TXV. Both units are 2-stage

  2. #15
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    6,308
    Quote Originally Posted by RyanHughes View Post
    Classical,

    So ARI just rates systems that don't work together? Look up ARI reference #1003799 and #545745. Look like good matches to me.

    t527ed works with Lennox systems, and his response was



    What kind of consequences are you expecting from a system rated by the American Refrigeration Institute? The TXV can be changed, and the system can be cleaned out and vacuumed. I understand the possible repercussions of using a coil that was used with a different type of refrigerant, and that's why a good company should do this. I'm very careful with my responses, by the way, and I certainly do not see any issue with this one. If you have any enlightenment to shed on the matter, I'll gladly listen.
    It is a very bad idea to use a coil that has been used with R-22 and convert it with R-410A. Every manufacturer strongly recommends against this practice regardless of how good you are. A coil is not a line set, the coil holds oil and cannot be fully flushed out even with RX-11 and an evacuation no matter how thorough will not remove oil.

    ARI will list the components as matching but they don't know what generation the unit is or that it has been used with R-22. ARI is not the last word on what to do when it comes to A/C work. In fact what the are is very basic it is information and information is good, but you have to temper that knowledge with experience.

    The OP may be able to have a new coil installed in the AH, I am not that current on Lennox but I doubt a current coil will fit the older cabinet.

    The AM/Std two compressor two-stage unit is R-22 and works very well with the CB32 MV AH I have done it several times because the HS-21 had a very big problem with condenser coil failures. I have an HS-21 on my house and have had to replace the coil if it fails again I would consider installing this combination.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    DC Metro Area (MD)
    Posts
    3,350
    Quote Originally Posted by classical View Post
    It is a very bad idea to use a coil that has been used with R-22 and convert it with R-410A. Every manufacturer strongly recommends against this practice regardless of how good you are. A coil is not a line set, the coil holds oil and cannot be fully flushed out even with RX-11 and an evacuation no matter how thorough will not remove oil.

    ARI will list the components as matching but they don't know what generation the unit is or that it has been used with R-22. ARI is not the last word on what to do when it comes to A/C work. In fact what the are is very basic it is information and information is good, but you have to temper that knowledge with experience.

    The OP may be able to have a new coil installed in the AH, I am not that current on Lennox but I doubt a current coil will fit the older cabinet.

    The AM/Std two compressor two-stage unit is R-22 and works very well with the CB32 MV AH I have done it several times because the HS-21 had a very big problem with condenser coil failures. I have an HS-21 on my house and have had to replace the coil if it fails again I would consider installing this combination.
    Thanks for sharing the logic behind your statement. I guess I shouldn't have been so quick to suggest one of those models due to the old refrigerant being R-22, but I'm not so sure it wouldn't work. The coil has oil in it, but doesn't the lineset? Are you saying that the oil in the coil cannot be removed unlike the oil in a lineset that is removed by flushing? Would the residual oil left in the coil be significant to cause issues? Wouldn't a good flush and vacuum along with a new TXV be sufficient?

    An American Standard/Trane on a Lennox coil, eh? Isn't that against the matching law of HVAC? Just goes to show you that sometimes mismatching works, and sometimes it doesn't. Do the customers not care about the risk of having no warranty and no reassurance of efficiency and capacity as a rated system?

    Conflicting viewpoints here--just what the OP wanted.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    burlington county n.j.
    Posts
    9,642
    Quote Originally Posted by classical View Post
    The two units you are recommending are R-410A and his current system is R-22. I don't believe that coil was rated for R-410A and once used with R-22 it does not need to be used with R-410A.

    If you are not a pro don't understand the consequences of your recommendations don't make them. If you are supposed to be a pro and don't understand the consequences then don't make them.


    current A/H is rated for r-410, no reason it could not be flushed out and a new txv installed.

    better than mismatching it with a choo choo unit just because they still use r-22...............

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    66,803
    Quote Originally Posted by RyanHughes View Post

    An American Standard/Trane on a Lennox coil, eh? Isn't that against the matching law of HVAC? Just goes to show you that sometimes mismatching works, and sometimes it doesn't. Do the customers not care about the risk of having no warranty and no reassurance of efficiency and capacity as a rated system?

    Conflicting viewpoints here--just what the OP wanted.
    When he does that. He is taking all responsibility for weather or not it performs.

    There use to be a member here that use 3 ton nominal rated evaps with 5 ton condensers.

    Special application sort of.
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  6. #19
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    6,308
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    When he does that. He is taking all responsibility for weather or not it performs.

    There use to be a member here that use 3 ton nominal rated evaps with 5 ton condensers.

    Special application sort of.
    You are referring to Airman1 (David Debien) I worked for him for 5-years. He was not the only person to do this in fact the original concept was recommended by Lennox. I still occasionally apply nominally rated coils undersized to the condenser. It depends on the application.

    In fact my current system in my house is a downsized coil on a two-stage HS-21 condenser the coil is an Aspen.

    Installing an R-22 two stage condenser on an existing AH that uses R-22 is certainly a better solution than trying to mix refrigerants.

    Ryan an evaporator coil is aeries of horizontal copper tubing with a multitude of "U" tubes; a line set is only partially horizontal and if there are not any or only a few dips a very minimal oil will be retained. I have seen evaporator coils just loaded up with oil especially on systems that have been run low on refrigerant.

    Yes it is beneficial to use a matched system but a coil is a coil and the compressor doesn't care who makes the coil. The TEV is going to control the superheat and airflow and charge will control the SC.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    66,803
    I couldn't remember Davids screen name.
    And I didn't want to botch the spelling of his last name. I knew you would know who I was talking about.
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