Carrier Infinity 21 not meeting expectations

[ohiojohano]

We live in Ohio and we just purchased a Carrier Infinity 21 (4 ton) A/C for our home. It was installed last week. We have been using it for 4 days and we have not been pleased with the performance. We would like your opinions.

The unit makes the house tolerable, but not comfortable. The A/C does not hold the desired temperature in our home. As the day progresses, the temperature rises. For example, we start out the day at 72 degrees. In the afternoon, the house is up to 78 degrees. It takes most of the night to get back down to 72 degrees. Here are some sample numbers we took last night and today:

  Time     Setting       Inside Temp      Outside Temp
 9:50pm     72             77              77.5
11:15pm     65             77              75
 7:00am     65             73              71
 7:45am     65             74              71
12:20pm     69             75              79

We've expressed our concern (3 times) to the HVAC company. Their response has always been the same: "You are expecting too much from the unit."

Our old system had no problem in keeping the house at 72. It could actually make the house too cold for comfort.

Are we really expecting too much from our new system? Is this the norm for modern day A/C units?

[tigerdunes]

ohio

for an expensive AC condenser like that, you have every right to have high expectations.

if you are sized correctly and have the correct var speed air handler/furnace, then your problems point to install issues.

I would call owner/dealer and express your disatisfaction and ask they send best Infinity tech to thoroughly check system out.

and no, the performance you have described is not the norm and is not acceptable.

IMO

[gary_g]

Some condenser/indoor combinations are weak on btu's. What are the model numbers of the condenser and indoor coil?

Maybe the dip switches are not configured properly.

This is a 2 stage system - can you confirm that the system is running on 2nd stage (full out) ?

Has the installer been out to check the system for charge or settings?

This is Carrier's top-of-the-line system. You paid good money for it and you should be satisfied.

Good luck.

[dash]

Assuming you had a four ton before,and looking at the outdoor temps,something is vey wrong.Call and speak to the owner/manager of your installing company.

What's the model and serial of the outdoor unit?

[ohiojohano]

Thank you so much for your response. I am going to meet with the owner tomorrow. We have used him for many years and he has provided us with excellent service. In fact, we've been so happy with him that we didn't solicit any other bids for the work.

Here are the answers to your questions:

What's the model and serial of the outdoor unit?

Model# CNPVP4824ACAABAA
Serial# 4106X21686

This is a 2 stage system - can you confirm that the system is running on 2nd stage (full out) ?

I don't know. I'm just a home owner, not an HVAC Do-It-Youselfer. This is one area where I'll work a little extra in my field and then pay the HVAC experts. I will definitely pass this on to the owner when we meet tomorrow.

Has the installer been out to check the system for charge or settings?

Yes, the guy that installed it was out, but not the owner. He will be coming out tomorrow.

[dash]

Model and serial of outdoor unit??

[tigerdunes]

ohio

you have provided the evap coil model.

what about the model/size of the furnace?

is it also an Infinity furnace?

I hope so!

IMO

[ohiojohano]

ohio

you have provided the evap coil model.

what about the model/size of the furnace?

is it also an Infinity furnace?

I hope so!

IMO

Oops. Sorry. I'm at work and had my wife get the numbers. I just called again any my daughter found this number 25HNA648A300. I'm not sure if this is the right number either. I'll have to look when I get home later tonight.

Good news! We did get an Infinity Furnace (heat pump and propane).

Thanks again for your help

[RyanHughes]

You've got the model number right; now all you need is the serial number.

Sized right for the proper design conditions, your system should have no problem maintaining 72*, especially if the other one could. We got some heat here in MD (as did the whole east coast), and my system could maintain 72* just fine (of course running near constantly). This is the size the builder spec'd as well, and I doubt 95+ degree days were figured into the size calculation.

Good luck. Sounds like you need a competent person to look at the system. By the way, that's an Infinity 16 heat pump, not an Infinity 21 air conditioner. Nice dual fuel system there.

[udarrell]

Get a low cost humidity gauge so we know what the latent load is.

There has been some real high humidities in the Midwest states which slows the amount of temp drop.

Tell them you want a record of the tests they do & their evaluation of the problem(s) they find. If they say there is nothing wrong, email their test data; pressures, super heat temps, subcooling temps, indoor dry bulbs & wet bulbs, also "dry bulbs & wet bulbs of both the supply air & the return air to me. Also, an accurate reading of the CFM airflow."

Were they pushing a 21-SEER? The cooling season is not that long in Ohio?
- Darrell

[21degrees]

The infinity systems will only work with infinity furnace or fan coil. the model of heat pump is infinity 16 with 2006 coil. programming looks funny also. give unit lots of time to cool and you can test unit on 1 stage and 2nd stage. with infinity controller.

[gary_g]

By the way, that's an Infinity 16 heat pump, not an Infinity 21 air conditioner. Nice dual fuel system there.

Not good. That's a big difference. Someone is confused.

Good luck.

[beenthere]

Something not right with the temps you posted.

[ohiojohano]

Thanks so much for all your comments and sorry for the confusion about the system. I thought we had an Infinity 21 because the brochure we received with our proposal said Infinity 21. The actual estimate said:

Infinity Carrier MVB 2-stage variable speed L.P. furnace with a Carrier HNA heatpump system and an infinity controller.

Infinity air purifier
Media air cleaner

The serial number for this unit is: 5007E01093.
I don't know the size. The only thing I know is that it is a 4-ton unit.
When I went out to get the serial number, the unit was running.

Just an update on the temps. It is a BEAUTIFUL night here in Ohio. It is 11:00 pm and the temperature outside is 66*. The humidity is 69%. The thermostat is set to 69*. Guess what? The temperature in my house is 75*. We would love to open our windows, but we are keeping the shut. We don't want to throw off any numbers since the HVAC guy is coming tomorrow.

[RyanHughes]

What's the air temperature like coming out of the vents? I'd be curious to see what the HVAC guy tomorrow has to say about you "wanting too much from the system." Please keep up posted.

[acobra289]

It's stuff like this that makes me nervous about getting a new system. There sure are a lot of threads about new systems that don't cool worth a crap. I don't care if it's 100 outside, I would expect a new system to be able to cool to at LEAST 75, and I'd probably prefer 72. Especially systems that I would consider to be upper tier.

I hope they can get your system working right.

[acobra289]

double post.

[RyanHughes]

It's stuff like this that makes me nervous about getting a new system. There sure are a lot of threads about new systems that don't cool worth a crap. I don't care if it's 100 outside, I would expect a new system to be able to cool to at LEAST 75, and I'd probably prefer 72. Especially systems that I would consider to be upper tier.

I hope they can get your system working right.

This isn't normal system operation. It's likely that it's an installer error. We shall see...

[ohiojohano]

I met with the owner of the HVAC company today. He worked with the unit and thermostat. He said that he "adjusted the expansion valve" and that we should notice a difference. I asked him to test the air coming out of the vents and it was 48*. He is going to stop by later today to see how things are going. When he left, it was 72* inside and 76* outside.

My wife just called. She said it is still 72* in the house and it is 89* outside! She is actually cold! Some of my kids went outside to warm up

I hope the good performance of this Infinity 16 continues!

Thanks for all your help and sorry about the Infinity 21 confusion.
Ohio Johano

[tigerdunes]

He said that he "adjusted the expansion valve" and that we should notice a difference.
ohio Johano

hummm...

looks like you are making progress. wonder why this TXV issue wasn't caught by tech?

keep us posted of any updates.

IMO