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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    wedged in freezer shelf
    Posts
    6,147

    Do you gas it up if he wants it?

    I had a weird call today out to a/c call at a home.

    It started out weird since I don't normally do A/C or house calls.

    Today was one of our first good A/C tests of the year 88F and 68% humidity.

    I get there and he tells me while we stand at the C/U
    "I think it needs a little gas"
    I asked how it has been running and he said it's 8 yrs old and time to get topped off

    So I've think I've been picking up a few good tips from reading many posts here and I took in some printed material and charging graphs because I've moved passed the beer can methods

    So I get started and start to measure IDWB IDDB ODDB R/H and SH/SC and it's 72F and 49% RH inside his effen house

    WTF why am I here

    I take all the measurements and calculate SH and it's spot on from one of the graphs I pulled.

    He still is asking if it needs a little gas.

    Should I have fooled around with a tank of 22 in his back yard to make him happy or did I do the right thing and explain every thing was A/G. Did I miss something?

    I told him if he would like it a little cooler we could put a larger unit in for him.

    Do you think if I got the tank off the truck he would have felt cooler?
    If You Can Dodge A Wrench You Can Dodge A Ball

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    56
    I think you would have done best if you had a graph of cooling capacity and efficiancy vs charge to show him. Then you could go on to explain why you view his system as already charged and operating at top performance. I think striaght talk, even an extra ten minutes, will buy you a valuable customer for life. Some of these concepts are not really beyond the owner grasp if you take time to explain your verdict. I don't mean explain the 710 cap to a blonde. But there are owners who will hear what you say.

    It may have been helfpul to learn why he believes his system is no longer operating adequately. He may have had some well founded complaints that are more difficult to figure out. For instance, what if the indoor or outdoor coils are dirty? That can be more difficult to see. What will more gas do for that? I know it's a pita to clean dirty coils, but if he had a founded complaint, you could solve it with your service call. You would own him and all his friends as customers after that By solving the real problem rather than "gassing up" a system that had no leaks, you make a lifetime customer who respects your capablity as a professional.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Orlando,FL
    Posts
    314
    Quote Originally Posted by itsiceman View Post
    I had a weird call today out to a/c call at a home.

    It started out weird since I don't normally do A/C or house calls.

    Today was one of our first good A/C tests of the year 88F and 68% humidity.

    I get there and he tells me while we stand at the C/U
    "I think it needs a little gas"
    I asked how it has been running and he said it's 8 yrs old and time to get topped off

    So I've think I've been picking up a few good tips from reading many posts here and I took in some printed material and charging graphs because I've moved passed the beer can methods

    So I get started and start to measure IDWB IDDB ODDB R/H and SH/SC and it's 72F and 49% RH inside his effen house

    WTF why am I here

    I take all the measurements and calculate SH and it's spot on from one of the graphs I pulled.

    He still is asking if it needs a little gas.

    Should I have fooled around with a tank of 22 in his back yard to make him happy or did I do the right thing and explain every thing was A/G. Did I miss something?

    I told him if he would like it a little cooler we could put a larger unit in for him.

    Do you think if I got the tank off the truck he would have felt cooler?
    lol idk that is a good damn question. Cause if you tell him the truth that his system is fine he is like " well wtf do you do then?"
    However if you break the tank out. he thinks its gonna get cooler. And hell think it is cooler after your done.

    So its to the point of satisfy the customer with some tankage.
    Or tell him he's fine. Which no one wants to hear, especially after they have called you out.

    lol i say break the tank out and act like your adding refrigerant. Cause at the end of the day everyone, who doesnt know, thinks the more refrigerant the better. idk dude hes paying, and thats what he wants to see. lol
    If you dont do it hes gonna be pissed cause in his eyes he just payed you for nothing. Idk i wouldnt charge him for refrigerant though. Just say its on the house. lol

    2 ways to look at it. Tricking him, or putting his mind at ease. The only people i wanna trick are the ones who call you out and sit there and "help" you diagnose the problem. If there even is one. But again they are paying so....

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Orlando,FL
    Posts
    314
    Quote Originally Posted by gator8 View Post
    I think you would have done best if you had a graph of cooling capacity and efficiancy vs charge to show him. Then you could go on to explain why you view his system as already charged and operating at top performance. I think striaght talk, even an extra ten minutes, will buy you a valuable customer for life. Some of these concepts are not really beyond the owner grasp if you take time to explain your verdict. I don't mean explain the 710 cap to a blonde. But there are owners who will hear what you say.

    It may have been helfpul to learn why he believes his system is no longer operating adequately. He may have had some well founded complaints that are more difficult to figure out. For instance, what if the indoor or outdoor coils are dirty? That can be more difficult to see. What will more gas do for that? I know it's a pita to clean dirty coils, but if he had a founded complaint, you could solve it with your service call. You would own him and all his friends as customers after that By solving the real problem rather than "gassing up" a system that had no leaks, you make a lifetime customer who respects your capablity as a professional.
    Yea but a lot of times they dont want your explanation. llol they want some juice. Thats why they called you there. If his coil is dirty sure clean it. if there is a problem sure ill fix it. But if hes on my ass about charging then ill act like im doing it for a second just so he can stop thinking about it. Some just never believe that the charge is accurate.

    All he can think is "this thing i 8 years old, it must be low on refrigerant."
    I'll find the real problem and then ill act like im adding refrigerant. Ill explain things a lil bit. But giving too much information can also inspire some DIY'ers.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    5,998

    Thumbs up 6-pack method just might work !

    Quote Originally Posted by itsiceman View Post
    Today was one of our first good A/C tests of the year 88F and 68% humidity.

    So I've think I've been picking up a few good tips from reading many posts here and I took in some printed material and charging graphs because I've moved passed the beer can methods

    So I get started and start to measure IDWB IDDB ODDB R/H and SH/SC and it's 72F and 49% RH inside his effen house
    72'F at 49% ...
    so the Leaving Air Temp. =~ 52'F.
    It does not get any better than that with DX

    One could always revert back to the beer car method in these situations.

    GIVE THE CUSTOMER A SIX-PACK of His choice !
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cedar Grove, Wi-Sheboygan
    Posts
    1,582
    Gator8 hit it on the head !!!! As he said I to believe you would have had a customer for life had you done and said what Gator8 explained in his post. Believe it or not most customers are smarter than you think and out of all of you that responded to this post Gator8 would be the one I would be calling, not the guys who are going to appeize the customer and make them think there getting something there not and then tell them everything is A-OK !!! What are you going to tell the customer next time you are called out ? Honesty is always best and you will gain more for being honest than to tell half truth's IMO

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    new jersey
    Posts
    752
    He needs to be explained that he has a sealed system and that if he needed a charge then he has a leak. if the preasures are dead on then maybe you need to just open up the registers that the wife closed off last winter who knows. maybe he started takeing MEDS and his blood is just a bit thinner. I would just carry the can over to the condenser, throw the gages on and just do my readings. ((Mr Jones your system is in perfect running condition but needed just a smitten of gas )).

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Rochelle Il / Chicago
    Posts
    169

    Thumbs up

    yup
    had a cust. like this the other day.
    recommended changing the r22, changing the line dryer and adding z-ice.
    Then told him that we would find the numbers to be the same and cooling to be the same.
    We just added Z-Ice
    Signed him up on a maintenance agreement And moved on.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Western NC
    Posts
    2,504
    Thats seems to be more and more common these days. And the only way you can explain the reason for more homeowners wanting a fill-up is simple....

    there are too many hacks and uneducated techs/contractors running around. Too many people are getting lazy and not doing their jobs properly. Its not your fault but now its your problem. For instance, instead of changing out a lineset to be proper, lets just set em up on a refrigerant agreement where we come add a little in summer and remove a little in winter. Too many mismatched systems out there also. Now that the HO has lost faith in the installing contractor or doesn't know who to turn to, they come to you. And they typically are the ones that will call 3 differnt contractors in a month until they get the one that comes out and just adds refrigerant. Then they go about their life.

    I had come across a few HOs like this here last year. I listened to their description of the problem they are encountering and proceeded to check the system. Performed an entire system diagnostic and then would sit down with the HO and explain the results. I would have everything noted on the invoice as to temps, pressures, SH/SC, condition of system, condition of coils, stat settings, everything.

    As I explain everything to the HO, I would add that their system is sealed. If refrigerant is needed, then there is a leak somewhere within the system that would need to be found and corrected. I would also point out the fact that sometimes, the problem could be intermintent, meaning that its working fine now but may go retarded in a few days, in which case we would need to return and attempt to catch the culprit in the act.

    Usually, taking 20 minues to explain all your findings and answering any questions will end the theory for that customer. They will realize that you are a knowledgable technician and that your word is true.

    And the last thing I always said before leaving was that if they had any more questions or were experiencing any more problems to call the office for more assistance.
    I fully support the military and the War on Terrorism.


    If you don't know, then don't do. If you don't know and still do, then be prepared to pay someone else a lot to undo what you did and then do it right.

    If you do know, then do. But do it right. Otherwise, you may not be doing it long.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    wedged in freezer shelf
    Posts
    6,147
    This guy is a restaurant owner and we know each other by name.

    I couldn't even clean the condenser because he keeps it perfectly clean and he just finished before I got there.

    His tool box and CO2 tank was still by the unit.

    He was getting worried the whole thing was about to crap out because for some reason he thought the unit would only last 10 years.

    I did talk with him like I normally do and explained things but, he had that look like ya sure it doesnt need a little gas
    If You Can Dodge A Wrench You Can Dodge A Ball

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    443
    Good call Iceman!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Phoenix,AZ
    Posts
    2,762
    Quote Originally Posted by tomgeer View Post
    yup
    had a cust. like this the other day.
    recommended changing the r22, changing the line dryer and adding z-ice.
    Then told him that we would find the numbers to be the same and cooling to be the same.
    We just added Z-Ice
    Signed him up on a maintenance agreement And moved on.
    Z-ice.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    12,023
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatstogey View Post
    lol idk that is a good damn question. Cause if you tell him the truth that his system is fine he is like " well wtf do you do then?"
    However if you break the tank out. he thinks its gonna get cooler. And hell think it is cooler after your done.

    So its to the point of satisfy the customer with some tankage.
    Or tell him he's fine. Which no one wants to hear, especially after they have called you out.

    lol i say break the tank out and act like your adding refrigerant. Cause at the end of the day everyone, who doesnt know, thinks the more refrigerant the better. idk dude hes paying, and thats what he wants to see. lol
    If you dont do it hes gonna be pissed cause in his eyes he just payed you for nothing. Idk i wouldnt charge him for refrigerant though. Just say its on the house. lol

    2 ways to look at it. Tricking him, or putting his mind at ease. The only people i wanna trick are the ones who call you out and sit there and "help" you diagnose the problem. If there even is one. But again they are paying so....
    and the next thing you know, your mug is on the local TV 6 o'clock news with three cameras swooping in from several directions.


    I think that I'd just stick to the truth.
    Perhaps you should have read the instructions before calling.

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