Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 27 to 39 of 39
  1. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,317
    Glad I stick with Spacepak and Unico then.

    I install set back stats, and tell them to set them at a temp that they are comfortable at.
    After all, they had me install it so they can be comfortable.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Kenilworth NJ
    Posts
    951
    everyone should install what they are comfortable with. a well installed low quality system can perform better than a poorly installed high end system. however - without getting into a brand battle - I have not installed any of these (spacepak unico or Hi-V) notice this:

    Quote Originally Posted by numbawunfela View Post
    Something else I noticed as I play with thermodynamics online (FUN!!)
    The ARI website publishes data for compatible units, and their actual output. Plugging in models for the Hi-Velocity system and the nearest Unico equivalent matched to the same condenser we get the following results:

    ARI reference number 1191727-Unico system 11.15 Seer and 29600 Btu/hr

    ARI reference number 1352382-Hi-V system 17.90 Seer and 34800 Btu/hr

    Both matched to the same 3-ton Condenser

    Just go to this URL:

    http://www.ahridirectory.org/ahriDir...ultSearch.aspx

    and plug in the ARI reference numbers in the first field. That is all you need to bring up the rest of the info. I suggest you do it in two separate windows so you can compare the two results.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Exeter, NH
    Posts
    59

    My biggest problems have been...

    Using ESP's load calculations and some inherent design flaws (stratification) has been the route of my problems. Once we recognized the problems and corrected them things have been much better.

    ESP has fixed the glitches with the load calcs. some time ago and they did help make it right. And we now know just how important the stratification effect in a larger two story house is.

    Keep in mind we have been installing these units for more than 10 years and a lot of things have been revised and upgraded. The best improvements has to be the EMC (they call them something else, but are the same) motors and controls.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Kenilworth NJ
    Posts
    951
    Mr. Kits any comment on this?
    Quote Originally Posted by numbawunfela View Post
    So the temp overload on the compressors were cutting the compressors out due to high heat load before the charge was sufficient to bring the comfort level in the home to the setpoint. you would oversize the condensers...right?

    Out of curiosity, did you double check the ari ratings for the matched pair condenser to Air-handler? I have not made it a habit myself, but after I saw what the difference MIGHT be as posted below, I think I will start. Could it be the system was sized to the nominal capacity and not the actual capacity as matched to their individual condensers?

    The goal is not to point a finger, but rather to get my head wrapped around the proper application of these systems. I would rather go with an ari rating than a blanket 1/2 ton oversize, unless of course you did go with the ARI rating already.....
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,317
    Quote Originally Posted by numbawunfela View Post
    everyone should install what they are comfortable with. a well installed low quality system can perform better than a poorly installed high end system. however - without getting into a brand battle - I have not installed any of these (spacepak unico or Hi-V) notice this:
    You have to match up the right condenser. You do loose SEER.
    But, they have SHRs of 65, and some as low as 60.

    I don't know of any customer that would be more concerned about the SEER rating, then being cool in their house..
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,317
    A York CMB3611 only gets 30,800 at 11 SEER.
    REF#114544

    But good humidity removal.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Kenilworth NJ
    Posts
    951
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    You have to match up the right condenser. You do loose SEER.
    But, they have SHRs of 65, and some as low as 60.

    I don't know of any customer that would be more concerned about the SEER rating, then being cool in their house..
    Well said.

    Notice, though that you also lose close to 20% of your nominal capacity with unico as opposed to 4% with Hi-v. this may affect customer comfort, since the INSTALLED system is undersized.

    It also affects cost since the air handler, or condenser may need to be the next size up with the added labor for extra ducts and such that comes along with it.

    also, one does not necessarily have to choose between comfort and Seer rating.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Kenilworth NJ
    Posts
    951
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    A York CMB3611 only gets 30,800 at 11 SEER.
    REF#114544

    But good humidity removal.
    I don't see latent sensible ratios on the ARI website. where do you get the humidity removal info?
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Exeter, NH
    Posts
    59

    I guess I didn't make myself cear..

    The compressors rarely tripped on overload, they would just take forever to cool the house down, if at all.

    It was critical to get the charge and TX valve balanced, but once it was they worked well.

    No, I didn't cross check, I just blindly followed their recommendations and for the most part it worked.

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,317
    With Unico and Spacepak. You size the system to meet the load. Even with conventional systems, Just because a load calc says 3 tons, doesn't mean you use a 3 ton condenser.

    The ratio unfortunately isn't part of ARI's cert.
    I check the ration on units I install,(not every one). Just on condensers I haven't used before so I know how its performing and can make adjustments before it becomes a complaint. Only takes a few minutes.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Kenilworth NJ
    Posts
    951
    I see.

    Do either of you have some typical latent sensible ratios you have met in the field? either unico or hi-v?

    They say 'up to 30% more latent removal' in the hi-v literature.

    Thant would suggest a 60 - 40 split, rather than a 70-30 split which is the usual.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Kenilworth NJ
    Posts
    951
    Quote Originally Posted by heatkits View Post
    The compressors rarely tripped on overload, they would just take forever to cool the house down, if at all.

    It was critical to get the charge and TX valve balanced, but once it was they worked well.

    No, I didn't cross check, I just blindly followed their recommendations and for the most part it worked.
    I am suspicious that if older hi-v systems put out the same as the current unico and spacepak systems, your 3 tom system would be doing less than 30000 btu's and would thus be undersized if the load was 34-36,000. It seems the newer hi-v systems are able to get up around 33K-34.5K with a 3ton condenser.

    Your insights are very helpful. nothing like 'I been there' to shed a little light on the situation.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,317
    Generally get 63 to 67 on the ones I tested.
    You do lose sensible capacity. So checking the actual rating is important if your customer doesn't unstand that HV's were originally not intented to drop the indoor temp to 70°.

    Thats according to a seminar for Spacpak many many years ago.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event