trane xl16i vs lennox xp19???? - Page 3
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  1. #27
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    17
    yes well i guess i shld call florida power and light and have them tell me the payback on 2 more SEER. I can then see if its worth the extra money. I am going from 10 (at best) to the new one so i should get some real savings anyway. IMproving humidity functionality also a reason to switch out.

  2. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by air311 View Post
    Everyone pads their price to make a profit. If you don't figure profit into your quote, you aint going to be in business long. My boss will simply give a quote, and if the customer says someone can beat it with similar equipment, he has room to drop it down a bit. Do you have a problem with people comparing prices when furniture or appliance shopping? Or how about car buying..it's written in many car buying guides that it's ok to tell a dealer that another dealer will sell you a similar car for such a price. If car dealers, or anyone who sells goods to other people, can lower their price to match a competitors, why should this industry be any different? I probably wouldn't lower my price if I was giving the bids, i'd give one and leave it at that, but I see no problem with doing it. My boss isn't ripping anyone off with his initial bids. He gives the most detailed bids around here. But if he needs work for his guys, he'll drop the price down, and thus lower his profit margin. As for Lennox vs. Trane, I said ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, including equipment, I would recommend Trane. Yes, the install is most important, it's just MY OPINION, based on units we service around here, that Trane is more reliable, and easier, and thus less expensive, to have serviced down the road. Nobody ever gives advice on here about what a unit may cost down the road to repair, and at least around here, Lennox's parts are a quite a bit more than Trane's. And I work for a Lennox dealer, so i'm not just blindly cheerleading for Trane because I sell and install them.
    You're saying two different things. Yes any contractor with any brains is going to include enough to make a profit but that's not the same thing as padding on negotiating room on top of your profit. No one has a problem with customers comparing prices but we're not selling appliances, furniture or cars. We aren't selling a commodity. We are selling the equipment and our installation. Comparing a Trane or Lennox installation that my company does with one some fly by night wanna be A/C contractor does is not the same thing. If I find the same model of appliance or piece of furniture at two different stores, those would be comparing exactly the same thing. It's up to us as contractors to differentiate our companies and our installations. If the customer gets enough bids they will always be able to find a cheaper price for the same equipment, but the installation might end up in the "hall of shame". You have to be able to explain to your customer that you aren't the cheapest in town and that you don't negotiate prices and the customer will get what they pay for. We sell both Lennox and Trane but more Trane than all other lines. We have sold Trane since it was GE and I really don't see much of a cost difference in price between Trane parts and Lennox parts, at least around here. We have to look at the individual equipment that we're talking about.... The Lennox XP19 and the Trane XL16i. In this case I don't see how you could say the Trane would be easier to service. With the XP19 it's easier to get the access panels off to clean the condenser coils, it's easier to get to the controls, it has a comfortalert diagnostic board, and god forbid you had to change a compressor it would be much much easier to change the Lennox one. The compressor and the controls are all accessible from one access panel without having to shut the unit off and remove the top of the unit.

  3. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by bernler View Post
    yes well i guess i shld call florida power and light and have them tell me the payback on 2 more SEER. I can then see if its worth the extra money. I am going from 10 (at best) to the new one so i should get some real savings anyway. IMproving humidity functionality also a reason to switch out.
    If humidity control is a big priority I would go with the Lennox system and have them install either a Honeywell VisionPRO IAQ thermostat or Lennox's new touchscreen thermostat the ComfortSense 7000, both will give you excellent on demand dehumidification control.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    17
    Yes i think the guy said it comes with the touch screen display. I will go back to them see if the can knock a couple hundred off the proice to get closer and then go with the higher seer unit. I will also see if they can throw in more labor years on the warranty.....

    THANKS

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,630
    Get a quote on teh Trane 19i.
    It should work out that it has a lower first stage capacity then the 16i, and teh Lennox 19.
    Yes, it uses R22, no problem, unless you plan on having leaks in your system.
    And it will be more expensive then the lennox 19i.

    Remember, play price games can come back on you.
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  6. #32
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    17
    guess it can't hurt to get the true apple to apple. I will get 16 and 19 seer quotes on both trane and lennox. All things being equal it appears that if quotes close go with the trane if not lennox is quite acceptable.....

  7. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by bernler View Post
    Yes i think the guy said it comes with the touch screen display. I will go back to them see if the can knock a couple hundred off the proice to get closer and then go with the higher seer unit. I will also see if they can throw in more labor years on the warranty.....

    THANKS

    There are different types of Touchscreen thermostats. If you go with the Trane it won't matter which you use. If you go with the Lennox make sure it's one of those two I mentioned.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    17
    thanks for all your help.....

    I'll post as i get more information.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    DC Metro Area (MD)
    Posts
    3,367
    Quote Originally Posted by murphyHVAC View Post
    There are different types of Touchscreen thermostats. If you go with the Trane it won't matter which you use. If you go with the Lennox make sure it's one of those two I mentioned.
    If he goes with the XL19i and he gets the models that can communicate, shouldn't he go with the TCONT900 thermostat so that the system can communicate (to whatever extent they may be able to)? Otherwise, I'd go with the VisionPRO IAQ (I know the TCONT900 is similar).

    I guess see what thermostat your Trane dealer recommends. It's worth having your ductwork examined at this time and if possible adding an air cleaner. Make sure your ductwork was sized right to begin with, especially in Florida.

  10. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by RyanHughes View Post
    If he goes with the XL19i and he gets the models that can communicate, shouldn't he go with the TCONT900 thermostat so that the system can communicate (to whatever extent they may be able to)?
    Yes, if he has a communicating XL19i and he also has a communicating indoor unit.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,125
    [QUOTE=m kilgore;1864365]Padding your price and adding for profit are two different things. I have no problem with shopping for the best value at all. I do have a problem giving another company my price so they can beat it after I spent 2-3 hours doing the proposal correctly. I have run the manual J and they even get my sizing.

    As far as reliabilty goes on Trane vs. Lennox maby the Lennox dealer in your area dosn't install the equipment as good as the Trane people?LOL[/QUOTET My boss doesn't pad his prices. He gives quotes based on the price of equipment and materials needed for the job, the usual fair markup, and labor costs. But if we need the job, and a customer informs him that another contractor bid a lower amount, he'll drop his price once, which eats away profit. 9 times out 0f 10 he'll hold firm on his price, but if we really need the work he'll drop once.

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,125
    Quote Originally Posted by murphyHVAC View Post
    You're saying two different things. Yes any contractor with any brains is going to include enough to make a profit but that's not the same thing as padding on negotiating room on top of your profit. No one has a problem with customers comparing prices but we're not selling appliances, furniture or cars. We aren't selling a commodity. We are selling the equipment and our installation. Comparing a Trane or Lennox installation that my company does with one some fly by night wanna be A/C contractor does is not the same thing. If I find the same model of appliance or piece of furniture at two different stores, those would be comparing exactly the same thing. It's up to us as contractors to differentiate our companies and our installations. If the customer gets enough bids they will always be able to find a cheaper price for the same equipment, but the installation might end up in the "hall of shame". You have to be able to explain to your customer that you aren't the cheapest in town and that you don't negotiate prices and the customer will get what they pay for. We sell both Lennox and Trane but more Trane than all other lines. We have sold Trane since it was GE and I really don't see much of a cost difference in price between Trane parts and Lennox parts, at least around here. We have to look at the individual equipment that we're talking about.... The Lennox XP19 and the Trane XL16i. In this case I don't see how you could say the Trane would be easier to service. With the XP19 it's easier to get the access panels off to clean the condenser coils, it's easier to get to the controls, it has a comfortalert diagnostic board, and god forbid you had to change a compressor it would be much much easier to change the Lennox one. The compressor and the controls are all accessible from one access panel without having to shut the unit off and remove the top of the unit.
    Hence my comparable equipment comment. He's not going to drop his price to match a contractor who gave a quote on a low line model when we're bidding high line. He does a good job of selling the company and our work, we get plenty of jobs where I know we're not the lowest bidder. But when you need work to keep your guys busy, what's wrong with dropping your price a bit to appease a cost-conscious customer.

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Posts
    1,051
    [quote=air311;1864351]Everyone pads their price to make a profit.

    You started the padding price thing. It is obvious you know little about business and business terminology. Nuff said.
    Its a good Life!

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