trane xl16i vs lennox xp19????

[bernler]

the labor warranty was only 1 year for the trane and 2 years for the lennox. !0 year for parts, etc. It was mentioned that the labor warranty can also be 10 years? Is that something the installer does separate from the manufacturer?

I read somewhere that the xl19i trane does not use the new freon substitute? Is this something to also consider? It is my understanding that the trane i was quoted and the lennox both use the freon alternative..,

[murphyHVAC]

My boss always pads a little extra on his first quote, that way if the customer says another contractor bid lower for similar equipment, he can come down a notch. He'll only lower his price once though, and then only if we're slow and simply need the work. Nothing wrong with a homeowner trying to save money, though there is a line between what's right and wrong..but who's to say where that line is? As for the equipment, all things being equal, i'd go with the Trane (and I work for a Lennox dealer). Tranes are more reliable, easier, and thus less expensive, to repair, and their customer support, should you ever need it, is much better than Lennox's. Those are just my opinions.

I don't really see it being very ethical to pad your quote to see if they will pay it and take some off if they won't but I don't know all the details. Both of these systems will have a 10 year parts warranty. As far as technical support it really depends on the local distributor, but Lennox has an 1-800 tech support number that you can always call, Trane does not.

[murphyHVAC]

the labor warranty was only 1 year for the trane and 2 years for the lennox. !0 year for parts, etc. It was mentioned that the labor warranty can also be 10 years? Is that something the installer does separate from the manufacturer?

I read somewhere that the xl19i trane does not use the new freon substitute? Is this something to also consider? It is my understanding that the trane i was quoted and the lennox both use the freon alternative..,

10 year labor warranties can be added for both manufacturers. Sometimes the contractor will include them in the price but at the least they should be able to give you an additional price to add the 10 year labor warranty.

That is correct about the XL19i, for some strange reason Trane still uses R-22 and has not shifted to R-410A in this line (although they will in the future). The XP19 and the XL16i both use R-410A.

[air311]

311

I know how the game is played. I have been in this business for alot of years. I still don't think its right to jack around with your prices like is being done. Are you saying that your boss is ripping people off who don't dicker?

Also how can you recommend a system when you don't even know what the whole system will be. Wheres the compairson. Trane is not any more reliable than any other system, they just market more. Its all in the install.

Everyone pads their price to make a profit. If you don't figure profit into your quote, you aint going to be in business long. My boss will simply give a quote, and if the customer says someone can beat it with similar equipment, he has room to drop it down a bit. He doesn't do it often, just if we really need the work. Do you have a problem with people comparing prices when furniture or appliance shopping? Or how about car buying..it's written in many car buying guides that it's ok to tell a dealer that another dealer will sell you a similar car for such a price. If car dealers, or anyone who sells goods to other people, can lower their price to match a competitors, why should this industry be any different? I probably wouldn't lower my price if I was giving the bids, i'd give one and leave it at that, but I see no problem with doing it. My boss isn't ripping anyone off with his initial bids. He gives the most detailed bids around here. But if he needs work for his guys, he'll drop the price down, and thus lower his profit margin. As for Lennox vs. Trane, I said ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, including equipment, I would recommend Trane. Yes, the install is most important, it's just MY OPINION, based on units we service around here, that Trane is more reliable, and easier, and thus less expensive, to have serviced down the road. Nobody ever gives advice on here about what a unit may cost down the road to repair, and at least around here, Lennox's parts are a quite a bit more than Trane's. And I work for a Lennox dealer, so i'm not just blindly cheerleading for Trane because I sell and install them.

[bernler]

Thanks to all for this interesting debate. What i will do is get a quote from the Trane guy on the 19i so i have apples to apples. It also seems i may need a 3rd quote and if i am lucky maybe it will be in between the other 2 and i can solve this dilemma that way.

I still have the question of should i care about r-22 vs 410A? In that respect it is not apples to apples.

This trane versus lennox debate seems to be a close one. Some pros and cons for each so in the end price (assuming 2 good installs) should be the decider, unless the freon is an issue to you guys.

[m kilgore]

Padding your price and adding for profit are two different things. I have no problem with shopping for the best value at all. I do have a problem giving another company my price so they can beat it after I spent 2-3 hours doing the proposal correctly. I have run the manual J and they even get my sizing.

As far as reliabilty goes on Trane vs. Lennox maby the Lennox dealer in your area dosn't install the equipment as good as the Trane people?LOL

[m kilgore]

I would go 410A all the way. R-22 is going to just keep rising in price. Its already started and hasn't phased out yet.

[bernler]

If it's any consolation, the first guy was here doing an annual maintenance. He did NOT do the J test and spent only about 10 minutes writing up his quote.

I have a third guy coming who said it will take 2 hrs. Given what you suggest it seems like he may be the most reputable of the bunch....

[air311]

Thanks to all for this interesting debate. What i will do is get a quote from the Trane guy on the 19i so i have apples to apples. It also seems i may need a 3rd quote and if i am lucky maybe it will be in between the other 2 and i can solve this dilemma that way.

I still have the question of should i care about r-22 vs 410A? In that respect it is not apples to apples.

This trane versus lennox debate seems to be a close one. Some pros and cons for each so in the end price (assuming 2 good installs) should be the decider, unless the freon is an issue to you guys.

R22 is going to get very expensive when it's completely phased out of new units.

[bernler]

So the dilemma continues.......if you both recommend 410A and trane does not offer it in its 19 SEER unit, do i go for the 16 seer trane for let's say $600 less or the 19 Seer lennox since there is not 19SEER trane for an apples to apples comparison?

It appears to my naive view that for more money i get the 410A and more efficiencies, but $600 is alot of money......is it worth it!!!!!!??????

[bob hubbard]

R 22 will be the same price as 410 for many years ! YES Im guessing just like everyone else . Id go with r22 just because its been a proven winner for 10 ka-zillion years . Im beting 410 wont be around when i retire .

[air311]

So the dilemma continues.......if you both recommend 410A and trane does not offer it in its 19 SEER unit, do i go for the 16 seer trane for let's say $600 less or the 19 Seer lennox since there is not 19SEER trane for an apples to apples comparison?

It appears to my naive view that for more money i get the 410A and more efficiencies, but $600 is alot of money......is it worth it!!!!!!??????

Go with whatever contractor you like better, and whatever install you feel is the best deal. Properly installed, you shouldn't need to worry about adding refrigerant for a while anyway.

[murphyHVAC]

So the dilemma continues.......if you both recommend 410A and trane does not offer it in its 19 SEER unit, do i go for the 16 seer trane for let's say $600 less or the 19 Seer lennox since there is not 19SEER trane for an apples to apples comparison?

It appears to my naive view that for more money i get the 410A and more efficiencies, but $600 is alot of money......is it worth it!!!!!!??????

Like I said earlier, the Lennox in question is going to get a 16 something SEER and the Trane is going to get a 14 something SEER.