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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    17

    trane xl16i vs lennox xp19????

    I am in need of replacing my 5 ton unit in south florida. I received a quote for a lennox xp19 and one for a trane xl16i. The original trane quote was $750 higher than the lennox because lennox is running $1000 rebates. Anyway after negotiating with contractor, I got the trane down to $700 LESS than the Lennox. The contractor called his trane rep and apparently got a disclount. Times are tough here in fl>

    Any suggestions on this decision?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Posts
    1,051
    Need more info. What are the model numbers for the indoor and outdoor units? Did either contractor do a manual J load calculation?

    There is no way of telling you the performance of either unit without numbers. They most likely will not get 16 and 19 seer respcetivly.

    Remember that the contractor is the most important choice you will make. Any unit installed wrong will be a big headache. I would question a contractor that changes his prices. Did you show him or tell him the other guys bid? Inquiring minds would like to know.
    Its a good Life!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    17
    the lennox is the xp19-060 - outside and the cbx32mv-06. The Trane is the xl16i but i do not have the inside unit number. Basically, the Trane guy's quote was that much higher that i didn't ask for a write-up, therefore, i do not have the indoor model.

    I told the Trane guy my quote from the other contractor (i lowered it by $400 from actual number). I told him that Lennox was running a $1000 mail in rebate until mid june which is likely making the cost that low. He left my house and called me an hour later. He stated that he talked to his Trane representative and that trane was willing to cut the price.

    Both contractors are large reputable companies. One (lennox) does maintenance on this unit. During the maintenance they told me i had a small freon leak, etc and the unit was laboring a bit. They did not push me on having to do a replacement. The other contractor i use on an investment property I have and I trust also.

    I can try and get the details on the inside piece if you feel it required to make a general judgement.

    Thanks for your help i am very naive to this. One other thing, is humidity control. Is either unt better than the other or is the thermostat more important? I have been reading some of the forums to try and educate myself.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Posts
    1,051
    Lennox numbers are as follows. 16.3 SEER 8.5 HSPF 57000 BTU cooling 54000 BTU high heat 33000 low heat. This is there top of the line heat pump. It would be two stage which will be nice for comfort.

    As you can see the numbers in the literature are misleading. It would not be a 19 SEER unit. I also do not think that you are comparing apples to apples. I will let the Trane guys chime in on that.

    Did either one of these contractors run a manual J on your house. They would have had to measure all of the rooms, windows and doors etc...
    This is very important for sizing correctly. If not I would call and have them back out to do one. If they say that the old one was that size it really means nothing. You need to know what you need and then match a unit to cover those needs. BTU's could be very different from the old to the new. To control humidity, the first thing you need is to be sized properly. I would control the above Lennox unit with a Honeywell IAQ thermostat. This thermostat will also help with controlling humidity and the stages on your heat pump.

    Get the numbers for the Trane system and let us know.

    I personaly do not think it is ethical to give contractors others prices but it is done all the time. In fairness you should turn around and give the Trane numbers to the Lennox folks. This is not the way it should be done at all. A properly worked up proposal takes a long time to do and the one basically wasted his time.
    Its a good Life!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Twilight Zone
    Posts
    2,964
    Lennox XP19-060 heat pump condenser matched with CBX32MV-060:

    57,000 btu cooling, 11.6 EER, 16.3 SEER, 54.500 btu heating at 47F, 8.5 HSPF.

    ARI# 551500.

    www.ARIDirectory.org.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by bernler View Post
    the lennox is the xp19-060 - outside and the cbx32mv-06. The Trane is the xl16i but i do not have the inside unit number. Basically, the Trane guy's quote was that much higher that i didn't ask for a write-up, therefore, i do not have the indoor model.

    I told the Trane guy my quote from the other contractor (i lowered it by $400 from actual number). I told him that Lennox was running a $1000 mail in rebate until mid june which is likely making the cost that low. He left my house and called me an hour later. He stated that he talked to his Trane representative and that trane was willing to cut the price.

    Both contractors are large reputable companies. One (lennox) does maintenance on this unit. During the maintenance they told me i had a small freon leak, etc and the unit was laboring a bit. They did not push me on having to do a replacement. The other contractor i use on an investment property I have and I trust also.

    I can try and get the details on the inside piece if you feel it required to make a general judgement.
    The Lennox has a completely enclosed compressor compartment and comfort alert diagnostics so it will be easier to service and probably quieter. It will also be compatible with thermostats that dehumidify such as the Honeywell VisionPRO IAQ. Get the SEER ratings from them. The 5 ton XL16i can't get a SEER rating higher than 14.65 with any air handler while the Lennox XP19 with the air handler you listed gets a rating of 16.3 SEER. The indoor unit for the XL16i should be a variable speed one since those units aren't ARI rated with anything that's not variable speed. If you are getting the XP19 for less than the XL16i, you trust the contractor and the labor warranties included are the same I would definately go with the XP19 and ask them to also include a VisionPRO IAQ thermostat setup for dehumidification. I have that exact setup in my home and love it. We do a lot of Trane and Lennox systems and I make recommendations on a case by case basis. In this particular case if all other things are equal I like the Lennox XP19 for a 5 ton system. Also I don't care how many phone calls he made, if it were me I would start to distrust a contractor when he drops his price $1,450

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    17

    reply to m kilgore

    m kilgore:

    I appreciate all the input. I will ask for this J work to be done before i finalize anything. It does concern me that neither of these guys did it and just assumed if i had a 5 ton that is what i need to replace it with.

    What do you mean not apples to apples? Let the Trane guy chime in? Are you suggesting Trane more features/better technology? The first guy told me trane has better reputation etc but charges more to "pay for their marketing costs".

    As for shopping around quotes, i will tell my first lennox quote the trane numbers. These are real hard times in FLorida and i have found that for large scale projects either you get someone trying to make up for the slowdown by overcharging or by giving a super low price just to keep the employees working until it passes. Without shopping around a bit it is hard to tell.........

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    17

    reply murphy hvac

    HI thanks for your input. As it stands now the lenox is $800 more than the Trane which is what is causing my decision dilemma.

    The contractor who dropped the price is a fairly reputable company which i have used before. I do take pause in the drop in price, but could his rationale that Trane is trying to match the Lennox rebate be legit? On a similar note i was in lowes looking at fridges and they told me they would match home depots 10% off even though they were not offering it. Times are real tough here in florida with new homes sales non-existent......

    Anyway the dilemma is $800 more for the lennox. Worth it or not?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,125
    Quote Originally Posted by m kilgore View Post
    Lennox numbers are as follows. 16.3 SEER 8.5 HSPF 57000 BTU cooling 54000 BTU high heat 33000 low heat. This is there top of the line heat pump. It would be two stage which will be nice for comfort.

    As you can see the numbers in the literature are misleading. It would not be a 19 SEER unit. I also do not think that you are comparing apples to apples. I will let the Trane guys chime in on that.

    Did either one of these contractors run a manual J on your house. They would have had to measure all of the rooms, windows and doors etc...
    This is very important for sizing correctly. If not I would call and have them back out to do one. If they say that the old one was that size it really means nothing. You need to know what you need and then match a unit to cover those needs. BTU's could be very different from the old to the new. To control humidity, the first thing you need is to be sized properly. I would control the above Lennox unit with a Honeywell IAQ thermostat. This thermostat will also help with controlling humidity and the stages on your heat pump.

    Get the numbers for the Trane system and let us know.

    I personaly do not think it is ethical to give contractors others prices but it is done all the time. In fairness you should turn around and give the Trane numbers to the Lennox folks. This is not the way it should be done at all. A properly worked up proposal takes a long time to do and the one basically wasted his time.
    My boss always pads a little extra on his first quote, that way if the customer says another contractor bid lower for similar equipment, he can come down a notch. He'll only lower his price once though, and then only if we're slow and simply need the work. Nothing wrong with a homeowner trying to save money, though there is a line between what's right and wrong..but who's to say where that line is? As for the equipment, all things being equal, i'd go with the Trane (and I work for a Lennox dealer). Tranes are more reliable, easier, and thus less expensive, to repair, and their customer support, should you ever need it, is much better than Lennox's. Those are just my opinions.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by bernler View Post
    The contractor who dropped the price is a fairly reputable company which i have used before. I do take pause in the drop in price, but could his rationale that Trane is trying to match the Lennox rebate be legit? On a similar note i was in lowes looking at fridges and they told me they would match home depots 10% off even though they were not offering it. Times are real tough here in florida with new homes sales non-existent......

    Anyway the dilemma is $800 more for the lennox. Worth it or not?
    Most of the manufacturer rebates are contributed 50% by the dealer and 50% by the manufacturer so I would still guess the dealer is getting flexible with his own price. I know the Trane distributor here wouldn't change their price that much but you never know. The thing that could make your decision one way or the other is the labor warranty. If the Lennox had a 10 year labor warranty and the Trane didn't I would say it was worth it. If they both have a 10 year labor warranty it might still be worth going with the Lennox but I would find that out first.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
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    1,051
    Pricing is not allowed on this forum. Its in the rules.

    What I mean by apples to apples is that you will not get the efficiencies from that Trane unit that you will the Lennox. See if Trane has a more efficient unit to compare. Both brands are about the same as far as brands go. Its all with the installer. Either one if not installed right will give you years of headaches.

    There are alot of dealers from Florida on this forum. Maby one of them can help you out? I am sure some will chime in later as its getting into our busy season.
    Its a good Life!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
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    Quote Originally Posted by m kilgore View Post
    See if Trane has a more efficient unit to compare.
    Trane has an XL19i.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
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    311

    I know how the game is played. I have been in this business for alot of years. I still don't think its right to jack around with your prices like is being done. Are you saying that your boss is ripping people off who don't dicker?

    Also how can you recommend a system when you don't even know what the whole system will be. Wheres the compairson. Trane is not any more reliable than any other system, they just market more. Its all in the install.
    Its a good Life!

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