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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    MA
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    22

    (Easy) Siemens Apogee with Insight questions

    I am looking at a recently installed (2003) Siemens EMS (one small BLN) including Apogee (v 3.7) with the Insight GUI. I've browed the icons: database transer and the PPCL editor are included. The comm. protocol is "P2". the MEC firmware (I believe) is ver 2.6. What do I have here? The questions:

    1. Do I have the required software to program new sequences of operation for the existing controllers from the Apogee/Insight interface?
    2. Can I add new controllers or add hardware points to the existing controllers?
    What other software (if any) do I need to accomplish 1 or 2?

    Thank you

    Bob

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    244
    Yes insight has all the access you need to do all of those things. You don’t need any additional software to accomplish those tasks. But the real question is...... What access levels did Siemens give you? There are four basic access levels that can be applied to any Insight Application. They are No Access (User cannot see the application), Read Only (User can only view the values or status of objects), Command (User can command the value or status of objects, as well as view them) and Configure/Edit (User has full access to the application). If you have access to the User Accounts (Button with a key on it) then you can open it and view your access levels. If you don’t have access to the User accounts the only way you can tell is by trying to edit or command something and see if you can save and send it to the cabinet, which I don’t recommend for someone at your experience level. Your questions tell me that you don’t have much experience with this control system or at least with Insight. Try contacting your Siemens Representative or Technician and have them show you what you can do at your access level. They may be able to walk you through some procedures over the telephone.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    34
    Sounds like you've got it all.

    Point Editor allows you to edit existing points as well as add new points.

    PPCL Editor allows you to edit existing programs as well as add/write new ones.

    System profile allows you to addand define any new devices (field panels, TEC's, etc..) to the BLN.

    No additional software required.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by shifferbrains View Post
    Yes insight has all the access you need to do all of those things. You don’t need any additional software to accomplish those tasks. But the real question is...... What access levels did Siemens give you? There are four basic access levels that can be applied to any Insight Application. They are No Access (User cannot see the application), Read Only (User can only view the values or status of objects), Command (User can command the value or status of objects, as well as view them) and Configure/Edit (User has full access to the application). If you have access to the User Accounts (Button with a key on it) then you can open it and view your access levels. If you don’t have access to the User accounts the only way you can tell is by trying to edit or command something and see if you can save and send it to the cabinet, which I don’t recommend for someone at your experience level. Your questions tell me that you don’t have much experience with this control system or at least with Insight. Try contacting your Siemens Representative or Technician and have them show you what you can do at your access level. They may be able to walk you through some procedures over the telephone.
    I will confirm the access level, but I believe it's the full nine yards. Thus, far Siemens has been nonresponsive to requests. I am preparing to enter "learning mode" on this system...thanks for the responses. I will be back for a couple of follow-up questions

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    244
    Lol..... Ok. Learning mode can be quite interesting.

    I am looking forward to your future questions.

    Have fun with it.....

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    34
    Bob,

    Go to the Report Builder, scroll down to the bottom of the reports list and select "user accounts report".

    That will display your access level.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    22

    More Easy questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by gkstriper View Post
    Bob,

    Go to the Report Builder, scroll down to the bottom of the reports list and select "user accounts report".

    That will display your access level.
    Shifferbrains and qkstriper, thanks for the responses.

    Okay, I'm in as a "configure/edit" user. No doubt, there'll be smoke on the horizon soon. I'm still a little perplexed about what's there:

    I had been told that I needed a program called Voyager to program controllers, but as you guys said, via Insight 3.7, that function appears to be available. There's database transfer, PPCL and the System Profile hierachy with a stack of hardware icons ready to be attached to it. Are there some versions of Insight which lack the field panel level software, or was I initially advised incorrectly?

    I read the on-line manual looking for the procedure to backup the system and browsed around, but did not find it. How is it done?

    Thanks!

    Bob

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Des Moines
    Posts
    287
    The backup utility is a separate application, so you'll find it under start\programs\insight\insight backup utility

    You don't need Voyager. What you need if you want to install\replace TEC's is CIS (Controller interface software). Search around here, you'll find it. You'll use CIS to address new TEC's so that they can be identified by Insight (and the panel) on the FLN.
    Dingman from Iowa~
    "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

    The Dingman's webpage, featuring the Ding_Z

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    244
    To backup your cabinets to Insight use the Database Transfer utility. Don’t look for the word “Backup” It uses the term “Upload and Download” the database. Upload transfers data from the selected field panel and saves it to the Insight Computer. Download transfers data from the Insight Computer to the selected field panel. Select a field panel or panels from the list and Add them to the active window. Select what options you would like and start the transfer.

    Good Luck, and have fun with it.....

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Des Moines
    Posts
    287
    Shiff, we should clarify that uploading the database from the panels to Insight does backup the panel database to the Insight server.

    However, if the Insight server crashes and no "Insight backup" has been created, then much of the "system" will be lost (trend data, graphics, event definitions and a few other items).

    Normally, using the database transfer application isn't needed since whenever a change is made to the databases (either from Insight or via the panel), it's automatically stored in Insight. A person would have to shut down Insight or remove the mass storage definition and then make a database change and then... bah, it just doesn't happen very often.

    At any rate, once the panels and Insight are sync'd the only backup to be done on a regular basis is the backing up of the Insight database via the application that I mentioned.
    Dingman from Iowa~
    "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

    The Dingman's webpage, featuring the Ding_Z

  11. #11
    There are two other features you might find helpful.
    ONLINE DOCUMENTATION -- icon looks like a PC with a question mark
    It's basically all their manuals in PDF form, they aren't bad if you have the time.

    AND the asist in Program editor -- it has most of the "code" that is used for programing and will walk you thru the proper syntax and what it really means.

    Good Luck

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,720
    Quote Originally Posted by dingman View Post
    Shiff, we should clarify that uploading the database from the panels to Insight does backup the panel database to the Insight server.

    However, if the Insight server crashes and no "Insight backup" has been created, then much of the "system" will be lost (trend data, graphics, event definitions and a few other items).

    Normally, using the database transfer application isn't needed since whenever a change is made to the databases (either from Insight or via the panel), it's automatically stored in Insight. A person would have to shut down Insight or remove the mass storage definition and then make a database change and then... bah, it just doesn't happen very often.

    At any rate, once the panels and Insight are sync'd the only backup to be done on a regular basis is the backing up of the Insight database via the application that I mentioned.
    All great information.
    Pardon the interruption, but how do you "Sync" the panels and Insight?
    I'm working on a newer site.
    Another question, what's a "cold boot"?
    jogas

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Des Moines
    Posts
    287
    "Sync'ing" is simply uploading the panel database to the Insight server.

    Cold start is something that occurs at the panel level and means that the panel no longer has a database and is in need of a reload.
    Cold start as opposed to warm start which is only a power cycle, causing the program to reset timers and loops.
    Dingman from Iowa~
    "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

    The Dingman's webpage, featuring the Ding_Z

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