tankless or 50 gallon

[rich s]

A friend of mine is having a second shower added to his home. He wants to be able to have two people run the showers at the same time. Would the 50 gallon bradford white, or a tankless type (1,200 dolllars) be more effective?

[tinner73]

you want a 50 gallon Rheem Fury

[beenthere]

A. Remove the pricing. Its against the rules, Thank oyu.

B. Tell him to have both people use the same shower.

C. Take a big tankless to supply 2 showers at one time.

D. Get a small commercial, 50 gallon, 65,000 BTU input, then you can have 2 showers used at the same time, and they can be long showers..

[Zeiss Nut]

let me see with a new low flow 2.5 GPM shower head.
in winter when supply water is cold,

for 2 shower head to run at the same time.
50Gallon tank will last 50 gal / ( 2 x 2.5 gpm) = 10 Min straight hot water.
50% hot water and 50 % cold water will last you 20 min Theoritically.

Basic Electric water heater has a recovery rate at 22-25 Gal / Hour
Basic Gas water heater has recovery rate of almost double the electric water heater.
There are also higher end gas water heater that has higher recovery rate.


So gather up all the info on first hour recovery rate and the tank less flow rate at the temp rise desired for your location.
Pay attention to the temp rise. Water supply temperature in Southern California is higher then let say Ohio or Michigan.

for example a tankless water heater with this spec
6.2 GPM @ 60 Degrees
at water supply temp of 60Deg , the tankless water heater are capable of supplying 6,2 gal/min of 120 deg hot water.

and of course price also enter into the equation. just don't post it here

[beenthere]

Most places don't have 60*F water supply in winter.
And if they did, using a tankless that can provide 6.2GPM at 60*F rise, you would need an output of 183,470 BTU and hour. At 80% efficiency, thats a min input of 229,338 BTU input.

[Zeiss Nut]

Most places don't have 60*F water supply in winter.
And if they did, using a tankless that can provide 6.2GPM at 60*F rise, you would need an output of 183,470 BTU and hour. At 80% efficiency, thats a min input of 229,338 BTU input.

Yep . I have to explain this to a idealistic home owner.
the extra money spend on tankless would not come back to them via the saving and plus in the winter they might get warm water
Husband and wife finally settle on regular 50 gallon gas water heater. Instead of the Takagi tankless.

btw Takagi make a tankless that is 380,000 BTU / h . can imagine paying for it or paying to operate it at full blast

[beenthere]

LOL... Yea, then on the larger ones, they may not come on during some of the lower water use times.

They are a great idea. Just not pratical for many customers.

[Brian GC]

They are a great idea. Just not pratical for many customers.

Or you could say they have features that make it marketable, but as a whole, they will not save or perform like a tank type in normal use.

Brian

[RIZZO5150]

I just bought an AO Smith "Vertex" for my own house.
You cant do any better unless you use a boiler IMHO.

http://www.hotwater.com/products/res...rg-vertex.html

78k BTU, 90% eff. Low NoX, PVC venting.

I have a shower that is plumbed with 3/4" and can move up to 13GPM depending on how many heads I have turned on.

[Craftsman]

I just bought an AO Smith "Vertex" for my own house.
You cant do any better unless you use a boiler IMHO.

http://www.hotwater.com/products/res...rg-vertex.html

78k BTU, 90% eff. Low NoX, PVC venting.

I have a shower that is plumbed with 3/4" and can move up to 13GPM depending on how many heads I have turned on.

This is going to be my next water heater as well.

[beenthere]

At 13 GPM, that will give you roughly 15 minutes +or- in the shower.
About 2.6 to 1 hot to cold water ratio. Depending on winter water supply temp, and how hot you like the shower.

[DanW13]

Hey Rizz I was looking for a place that handles those water heaters but couldn't find a dealer who handled them, Could you email me and let me know what you paid for it I am just curious as I ended up putting in a direct vent HW tank it works great but I was looking to get one of those but could not find a dealer. Anyway for the hot water tank you may want to get another tank and plumb it ahead of the 40 or 50gal tank but the tank only needs to be 1/2 of what the main hot water tank is to help get the temp rise up and make the main tank more efficent and also allow you to tank more showers consecectively as opposed to one or 2 showers ad you have to wait for more hot water. This will also give you a faster recovery rate by piggy backing a tank that is half of the main tank. It may cost a few more dollars but it maybe worth it if you have alot of showers daily.

[RIZZO5150]

At 13 GPM, that will give you roughly 15 minutes +or- in the shower.
About 2.6 to 1 hot to cold water ratio. Depending on winter water supply temp, and how hot you like the shower.

Yeah, but honestly I dont think I'll have six shower heads going at one time. It's neat for about 20 seconds.

[RIZZO5150]

Hey Rizz I was looking for a place that handles those water heaters but couldn't find a dealer who handled them, Could you email me and let me know what you paid for it I am just curious as I ended up putting in a direct vent HW tank it works great but I was looking to get one of those but could not find a dealer. Anyway for the hot water tank you may want to get another tank and plumb it ahead of the 40 or 50gal tank but the tank only needs to be 1/2 of what the main hot water tank is to help get the temp rise up and make the main tank more efficent and also allow you to tank more showers consecectively as opposed to one or 2 showers ad you have to wait for more hot water. This will also give you a faster recovery rate by piggy backing a tank that is half of the main tank. It may cost a few more dollars but it maybe worth it if you have alot of showers daily.

You might have me confused with you! My recovery rate is amazing and I've never run out of hot water.
There was a great article in Fine Homebuilding a couple of months ago where they used a 20Gal electric tank heater that was fed by a tankless. The tank stat fired up the tankless heater and there was a small Taco pump to circ the water between the tankless and the tank. It was really slick, but when I added up the total of the parts it was over $2k so the Vertex was cheaper.

I'm in So Calif and my local plumbing houses had them in stock. I think list is around $2800.

Edit: Dan: I cant PM. I dont think I have enough posts

[dan sw fl]

A friend of mine is having a second shower added to his home. He wants to be able to have two people run the showers at the same time. Would the 50 gallon bradford white, or a tankless type (1,200 dolllars) be more effective?

Rheem Fury or other mfg/model
with a small tankless in series
at each shower /bathroom


Take your pick ...

http://waterheating.rheem.com/conten...idential.shtml

http://www.statewaterheaters.com/products.html

[beenthere]

Remove the pricing. Its against the rules.

[DanW13]

Wow !!! That's a bit pricey for my taste, but when I decide to covert to hydronic heatinf that would be the equipment to buy.

[RIZZO5150]

Remember, that's list price.
You probably already know what the %off for wholesale is.

[21degrees]

You need to know water temperature first to see if tank less will work. I like tank less till I started Installing them. Now Im back to tanked heaters. You have to wait longer for hot water and water temperature fluctuates in shower. more than 1 complaint. They are perfect for cottages or vacation properties.

[21degrees]

Try polaris by John woods over 92% and it is not a boiler. Stainless steel tank. I use the same as what you have in your house. Cost affect

I just bought an AO Smith "Vertex" for my own house.
You cant do any better unless you use a boiler IMHO.

http://www.hotwater.com/products/res...rg-vertex.html

78k BTU, 90% eff. Low NoX, PVC venting.

I have a shower that is plumbed with 3/4" and can move up to 13GPM depending on how many heads I have turned on.