Need Help, I feel abused!

[bradrich1]

Hi all, this is my first time on thsi site. I have been 5 years in my home and it has an 8 yr old amana furnace and a/c unit. Last week, the blower apparantly stopped working and when my wife turned on the a/c it caused alot of condensation on the plem and caused the circuit board to short out on the furnace, this cost me $ to fix. So now they check the a/c unit outside and it turns out that when the blower wasnt working the compressor burnt itself out because it was cooling with nowhere for the air to go. I have no idea if htis can happen or if it is not likely. But now he wants $ to put in a new unit outside because its not worth getting a new compressor in an 8yr old unit. Please help me, i feel so used!

[t527ed]

can't see it from here, but that chain of events as described is very possable.

make sure the new outdoor unit is a match for the 8 yr old coil.

[vancehvac]

Wow, thats a rough deal!!

It doesn't sound unreasonalbe though. What happend to your equipment was "the perfect storm". An AC compressor change out is one of the most expensive repairs there are...Even if its under the manufacturers warranty it is still pretty expensive.

If you decide to change out the AC make sure the refrigeration coil & line set is replaced as well. Maybe even take the opportunity to go with a heat pump for a dual fuel "hybrid" system. Ask if financing is available - if necessary.

[Superdark]

I thought Amana had a lifetime warranty on the compressor?

[bradrich1]

thanks, it looks like i did run into the perfect storm. I have to check on the warranty.

[rundawg]

It's hard to say that the compressor is shot with out being there to test your system. Get more than one technicians opinion. Call 2-3 more companies and see what they say is your problem. DO NOT tell them what the first tech said was the problem with your system. See if you get the same answer, or maybe one of the other tech's can solve the problem with out changing out your compressor or entire system. Good luck.

[beenthere]

Get a second opinion. Although it is quite possible for that sequence of events to happen.
Then check on compressor warranty.

[plexus]

"The compressor compresses the refrigerant vapour increasing increasing the heat of the vapour whereby it is discharged into the system at high pressure. The hot vapour is then cooled down within the coils of a condenser to the saturation point for the refrigerant where it changes state and turns into a liquid. The condenser is the 'outside unit' Liquid still at high pressure flows to a 'metering device'. This metering device is essentially a restriction to the flow of refrigerant. As the refrigerant flows through the metering device its pressure drops and thereby so does its temperature. Low pressure/ temperature liquid then flows through another coil called the eveporator. Heat from the area being cooled, the food compartment of a cold store, or the office space being conditioned is then transferred to the liquid refrigerant in the evaporator coils making it boil. The resulting vapour then flows back at low pressure to the compressor or pump where the cycle starts again."

assumption: without proper evapouration, on the high side of the compressor due to lack of air flow over the evapourator, the pressure increases and damages the AC compressor. possibly also, there would be insufficient liquefied refrigerant on the low side possibly starving the compressor of lubrication, leading to failure.

perhaps a smart and non-insulting hvac contractor can provide more information.

so yes, the scenario that happen is entirely possible and awful. sorry you had to go through this.

brett

[Evolutionizer]

Thats not how the refrigeration cycle happens. But your scenario is possible.

[beenthere]

plexus,
Stick to being a home owner, and your current occupation.
Your not cutting it as an HVAC Therory instructor, by relating the refrigerant P/T and heat tranfer process incorrectly.

Not trying to insult you.

[plexus]

thats ok. thats how it works in a car AC system. perhaps instead of just pointing out a general over-arching issue with my post you could provide specifics?

[beenthere]

Well, I could, but it doesn't work that way in a car either.
I used to work on car A/C's.

[Caveman1234]

im not an hvac pro but i do know about AC theory and practical use. when the AC is running the compressed coolant goes through the coil in your furnace where the air from the blower blows over the coils and evapourates the coolant. this evaporation causes the coil to cool down which makes the air blowing over it and into your house, cool. the result is that the liquid coolant turns to gaseous and the gaseous is at a higher pressure. this is called the "high side" (the side of the chain with the liquid coolant is called the "low side"). the higher the temp of the air the higher the temp of the coolant in the high side also the higher the pressure. also the air blowing over the coils as the coolant evapourates keep the coil temp down.

if there is no air flowing, the temp and pressure will increase on the high side eventually, what should happen, is that a high pressure valve will release the coolant. if there is no high pressure release and no way to mitigate the pressure build up, this could damage the compressor (usually blow seals).

also like you said, the condensation build up causes water drippage. now i would have expected that the furnace would have been installed so that the coil would drain properly.

so yes, the scenario that happen is entirely possible and awful. sorry you had to go through this.

brett

You have that all wrong. The coil will freeze with no blower and the ice being bigger than the drain pan will cause the water not to run in the pan.

Also you are not cooling the air you are removing the heat. If the fan doesn't work, there is no heat to expand the refer into a gas causing liquid refer to flow back to the compressor. This will wash out the oil and/or break the piston, crank or valves, cause you cannot compress a liquid. All this will cause low pressure, not high.

If the outdoor fan had shut off, the pressure would be high because you are not removing the heat. With high pressure the compressor will over heat and shut down, it will then cool off and repaet.

[bradrich1]

thx again, I have no idea what alot of you said, but I will certainly get a few more opinions.

[Evolutionizer]

It got off on another path for a while. But what happened is possible and you should get a few more opinions without telling the techs what each other has said.

[jrbenny]

thats ok. thats how it works in a car AC system. perhaps instead of just pointing out a general over-arching issue with my post you could provide specifics?

Please don't answer technical questions. You were completely wrong. Now, with your edit, you are still wrong.

Beenthere didn't insult you. You posted the wrong answer. He told you such. Not insulting. Just the facts.

[plexus]

Please don't answer technical questions. You were completely wrong. Now, with your edit, you are still wrong.

Beenthere didn't insult you. You posted the wrong answer. He told you such. Not insulting. Just the facts.

to the HOs out there: this is why its important to do you own research and become informed. hvac contractors, like many specialized service providers, feel that they are the experts and that those of us that do not have their training and experience are not worth bothering with. take for example the contractor who answered my question about what makes a good install, "a good install will speak for itself".

seek out your own knowledge and go with those you feel most comfortable with because afterall it is you that will have to live with whatever they provide and install.

my advice: avoid contractors that have little or no tolerance for whatever knowledge you have or gain and simply refute you with cart-blanche statements without truly informing you and educating you. its a sign that they dont care about what you have to say and then you have to ask are they going to care about what they sell and install?

my edited post was taken verbatim from an AC site description of the workings of an AC. it is the same description as any other AC function description out there. it was a trap and it caught a fly.

[Evolutionizer]

Don't get mad because you're wrong. And you are. You shouldn't have gone that in depth in the first place with the question. All he asked was if it was possible that his situation could be true or not. He doesn't care about theory of the refrigeration cycle. If he did he could have posted it elsewhere.

[jrbenny]

To the homeowners out there...

This is how you increase your chances of being banned from a very informational forum.

A - You answer technical questions with bogus information.

B - You show complete disrespect for a moderator when you are corrected on the forum.

[beenthere]

In the Pro tech forums. We discuss a lot of technical issues and principals.
We learn from each other. And some times, we just don't believe something is true, or have a hard time understanding that something works the way it does.
Once in a while, someone will post that they tried what was posted and it doesn't work that way. Then upon further discussion, it will be discovered the person misunderstood apart of the procedure or test, or what ever.

This being the case that a tech could become confused on a procedure, or sequence of events.
Some technical discussions are best left out of the residencial forum, so the description is not repeated wrong, and misleads an unsuspecting individual.

JMO.

No insults meant to anyone.