Heat Pump or Air Conditioner in NJ? - Page 4
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  1. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by air311 View Post
    No it's not. Have you heard the price of fuel oil lately?
    1 million btus of heat from Propane at $2.50/gallon, 80% efficient furnace:
    (1,000,000 / 91,000) x 2.50 / .8
    = $34.34

    1 million btus of heat from fuel oil at $3/gallon, 80% efficient furnace
    (1,000,000 / 139,000) x 3.25 / .8
    = $29.23

  2. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by gary_g View Post
    1 million btus of heat from Propane at $2.50/gallon, 80% efficient furnace:
    (1,000,000 / 91,000) x 2.50 / .8
    = $34.34

    1 million btus of heat from fuel oil at $3/gallon, 80% efficient furnace
    (1,000,000 / 139,000) x 3.25 / .8
    = $29.23
    If oil is only $3.00 a gallon in the northeast, people there are getting by lucky. Here oil is $3.69 a gallon, LP(propane) is $2.57. Everyone I know that has oil heat has paid over or very close to $2,000 for oil this winter, while most of our LP burning customers have said they paid $1,400 to $1,600. And that's factoring in LP used to heat stoves, ovens, etc.

  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by air311 View Post
    If oil is only $3.00 a gallon in the northeast, people there are getting by lucky. Here oil is $3.69 a gallon, LP(propane) is $2.57. Everyone I know that has oil heat has paid over or very close to $2,000 for oil this winter, while most of our LP burning customers have said they paid $1,400 to $1,600. And that's factoring in LP used to heat stoves, ovens, etc.
    1 million btus of heat from Propane at $2.57/gallon, 80% efficient furnace
    (1,000,000 / 91,000) x 2.67 / .8
    = $36.68

    1 million btus of heat from Fuel Oil at $3.69/gallon, 80% efficient furnace
    (1,000,000 / 139,000) x 3.69 / .8
    = $33.18

    Propane is still more expensive.

    Take care.

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by gary_g View Post
    1 million btus of heat from Propane at $2.57/gallon, 80% efficient furnace
    (1,000,000 / 91,000) x 2.67 / .8
    = $36.68

    1 million btus of heat from Fuel Oil at $3.69/gallon, 80% efficient furnace
    (1,000,000 / 139,000) x 3.69 / .8
    = $33.18

    Propane is still more expensive.

    Take care.
    Play with your numbers all you want, I still don't know anyone with propane that paid more than anyone with oil heat. I have oil heat, and I like it, but it's the most expensive fuel you can burn. I don't care how much it costs per BTU compared to LP.

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by air311 View Post
    Play with your numbers all you want, I still don't know anyone with propane that paid more than anyone with oil heat. I have oil heat, and I like it, but it's the most expensive fuel you can burn. I don't care how much it costs per BTU compared to LP.
    The people with LP heat might have less heat loss or a 95% efficient furnace:

    1,000,000 BTU of heat with 95% LP furnace (LP at $2.57/gallon):
    (1,000,000/91,000)*2.57/.95=$29.73

    1,000,000 BTU of heat with 80% oil furnace (oil at $3.69/gallon)
    (1,000,000/139,000)*3.69/.8=$33.18

    At these prices, LP with a 95% furnace is cheaper than oil with a 80% furnace.

    There. Argument settled.
    Last edited by Random Guy; 04-08-2008 at 04:22 PM. Reason: Wanted to add something

  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by air311 View Post
    I don't care how much it costs per BTU compared to LP.
    Then you are missing the whole point. $ per btu is how most people figure the heating fuel cost.

  7. #46
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    Yes, but why do people with oil pay $2,000 or more during the winter for fuel and people with LP pay less than that? People who have oil heat simply pay more during the winter heating season. Numbers be damned. I would not have paid over $2000 for LP like I did for oil this winter.

  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by air311 View Post
    why do people with oil pay $2,000
    Because they burn $2,000 worth of oil

    Like I said earlier, the people with LP might have 95% furnaces and the people with oil furnaces have 80% furnaces. There are lots of factors that can affect how much you pay to heat your house besides the cost of the fuel you use. Amount of sun, windows, insulation, and a bunch of other factors can affect what you pay to keep your house warm. The people with LP might have newer houses that are a lot tighter than the people's houses that have oil heat.

    Assuming equal heat loss and equal efficiency (for fossil fuels), fuels that cost more per million BTUs will be more expensive to heat your home.

  9. #48
    Everyone needs an Acadia COmbined Heating and Cooling System. www.gotohallowell.com. This heat pump operates down to -30 degrees. This is a truely disruptive technology! I have one and it is AWESOME. No more oil or gas for me.

  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by air311 View Post
    Yes, but matching components make a system more efficient. Read ACDOCS post. A matched system is more efficient, and provides more comfortable air.
    You are only taking into consideration the heating mode of the system, if I'm not mistaking Jersey has some pretty hot & humid climate as well. The existing furnace you have now most likely does NOT have a VSM (variable speed motor). This will greatly limit you to your options for a high eff. system & limit the systems ability to remove moisture in the air, thus increasing your systems run time to achieve comfort. New equipment eff. is rated on a properly matched system, if the system is not properly matched even if you do purchase a (ex 14seer) condenser & coil the system will NOT rate 14 seer, for the simple fact the furnace does not produce the proper amount of cfm to achieve that eff. So take this into consideration its pointless to pay the thousands of dollars as you said and have a system that does NOT give you comfort at a affordable utility price!
    Ok, so I understand the point about VSM... but the statement about a furnace not producing the proper CFM seems a bit unlikely. The system is only a few years old and we're gonna assume the motor doesn't have speed taps that can be adjusted within an acceptable range to give the proper CFM? As far as the VSM goes, sure some newer AC systems could benefit by running in stage 1 vs stage 2... and it would help with humidity removal to some extent... but it is more of a comfort feature than a energy savings feature. Also, the difference in annual energy use between a 15 SEER (for example) and a 16 SEER is rather insignificant.


    Quote Originally Posted by air311 View Post
    Yes, but why do people with oil pay $2,000 or more during the winter for fuel and people with LP pay less than that? People who have oil heat simply pay more during the winter heating season. Numbers be damned. I would not have paid over $2000 for LP like I did for oil this winter.
    Wow. Numbers be damned?? Its a fact. Granted, you can tweak the efficiency of the gas furnace or the oil furnace and the numbers will change. However, the fact is that at the same efficiency rating oil is still the cheaper fuel with which to heat.

  11. #50
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    Actually, most of the people around here with LP live in old farm houses, with standard 80% furnaces. Most of the people with oil heat live in town, in smaller houses. $2000 will buy 542 gallons of oil at $3.69 a gallon. $2000 will buy 778 gallons of LP at $2.57 a gallon. I know it depends on each individual house, and what the owner sets the thermostat at, etc..but I know what people tell me around here, and everyone with LP pays less through the season than people with oil. Maybe there's other factors, but if oil was cheaper, everyone wouldn't be racing to get away from it so fast.

  12. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by air311 View Post
    Actually, most of the people around here with LP live in old farm houses, with standard 80% furnaces. Most of the people with oil heat live in town, in smaller houses. $2000 will buy 542 gallons of oil at $3.69 a gallon. $2000 will buy 778 gallons of LP at $2.57 a gallon. I know it depends on each individual house, and what the owner sets the thermostat at, etc..but I know what people tell me around here, and everyone with LP pays less through the season than people with oil. Maybe there's other factors, but if oil was cheaper, everyone wouldn't be racing to get away from it so fast.
    I understand what you are saying... but if the furnaces are running properly the oil does cost less (per BTU) at the price you previously listed... albeit not much.
    LP - 80% efficient - 29,727 BTU per $1
    Oil - 80% efficient - 30,352 BTU per $1
    The website I use for conversions lists 95000 BTUs per gallon of LP compared to 91,000 BTUs listed by someone else.

    Anyway, in my experience, people who live in farm houses generally don't keep their homes as warm as those who live in townhouses. I still think part of the issue is people look at how much they pay per gallon and don't take into account the efficiency or the BTUs produced.

  13. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by CurtisALCH View Post
    Everyone needs an Acadia COmbined Heating and Cooling System.
    No, everyone does not need an Acadia.

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