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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Central, FL
    Posts
    871
    Quote Originally Posted by jaguar36 View Post
    Sure I am, I'm losing the thousands of dollars a new furnace would cost me. And I would only be gaining the $100-200 or so I would save each year. Doesn't add up.
    You are only taking into consideration the heating mode of the system, if I'm not mistaking Jersey has some pretty hot & humid climate as well. The excisting furnace you have now most likely does NOT have a VSM (variable speed motor). This will greatly limit you to your options for a high eff. system & limit the systems ability to remove moisture in the air, thus increasing your systems run time to achive comfort. New equipment eff. is rated on a properly matched system, if the system is not properly matched even if you do purchase a (ex 14seer) condenser & coil the system will NOT rate 14 seer,
    for the simple fact the furnace does not produce the proper amount of cfm to achive that eff. So take this into consideration its pointless to pay the thousands of dollars as you said and have a system that does NOT give you comfort at a affordable utility price!
    WARNING:IF YOU DON'T KNOW THEN DON'T DO, SO THOSE WHO KNOW WHAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW DON'T END UP UNDOING WHAT YOU DID SO IT COULD GET DONE RIGHT!

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Twilight Zone
    Posts
    2,964
    Quote Originally Posted by shodinjido View Post
    Based on what?
    Based on the fact that Propane is the most expensive heating fuel.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Twilight Zone
    Posts
    2,964
    Quote Originally Posted by AcDOCnTRAINIG View Post
    You are only taking into consideration the heating mode of the system, if I'm not mistaking Jersey has some pretty hot & humid climate as well. The excisting furnace you have now most likely does NOT have a VSM (variable speed motor). This will greatly limit you to your options for a high eff. system & limit the systems ability to remove moisture in the air, thus increasing your systems run time to achive comfort. New equipment eff. is rated on a properly matched system, if the system is not properly matched even if you do purchase a (ex 14seer) condenser & coil the system will NOT rate 14 seer,
    for the simple fact the furnace does not produce the proper amount of cfm to achive that eff. So take this into consideration its pointless to pay the thousands of dollars as you said and have a system that does NOT give you comfort at a affordable utility price!
    Any new condenser and matching coil will be leaps and bounds better than the existing "ancient a/c".

    Using the existing 4 year-old furnace, replacing an old a/c system, and installing a new 13 or 14 SEER (12 EER) heat pump is the smartest thing to do. Installation money doesn't grow on trees for most people.

    Take care.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    134
    Quote Originally Posted by gary_g View Post
    Based on the fact that Propane is the most expensive heating fuel.
    Where does your 20 degree setting come from?

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Twilight Zone
    Posts
    2,964
    Quote Originally Posted by shodinjido View Post
    Where does your 20 degree setting come from?
    The statement was: I would run the heat pump with outdoor temps "into the 20's" before I switched over to propane.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    999
    Quote Originally Posted by AcDOCnTRAINIG View Post
    ...... if I'm not mistaking Jersey has some pretty hot & humid climate as well.....
    In the South Jersey area (not the shore), we've averaged about 1000 cooling degree days, the last few years; heating degree days, about 4000.

    Short periods of oppressive heat and humidity.

    AM

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    134
    Quote Originally Posted by gary_g View Post
    The statement was: I would run the heat pump with outdoor temps "into the 20's" before I switched over to propane.
    Sheesh

    Ok...How do you know you could "run the heat pump into the 20s" if you know nothing about the house or the equipment used? How do you know the heat pump would supply enough heat for the home "into the 20s"? This is an arbitrary range of numbers that means nothing.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Twilight Zone
    Posts
    2,964
    Quote Originally Posted by shodinjido View Post
    Sheesh

    Ok...How do you know you could "run the heat pump into the 20s" if you know nothing about the house or the equipment used?
    I live in the house with the OP. We will be buying the equipment together.


    Quote Originally Posted by shodinjido View Post
    How do you know the heat pump would supply enough heat for the home "into the 20s"? This is an arbitrary range of numbers that means nothing.
    If the heat pump can't keep up, the house temp drops 2 degrees and the t-stat kicks the aux heat on and runs the propane furnace to the setpoint temperature. If the OP finds that the heat pump is running too frequently for his liking in brutal cold weather, he can bump up the switchover temp. Since propane is one of the highest cost heating fuels, it pays to minimize its use and maximize the heat pump usage.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    134
    Quote Originally Posted by gary_g View Post
    Since propane is one of the highest cost heating fuels, it pays to minimize its use and maximize the heat pump usage.

    And this is why the cross-over setting should be plotted on a graph using information from a heat loss calculation. There would be no need to wait for the thermostat to drop 2 degrees (uncomfortable) and you would KNOW that you were saving money even when the Propane furnace is running. Hacky trial and error settings of the cross-over temperature setting with an arbitrary number will most likely cost money in the long run. Do it right the first time and be confident about it having the calculations to back it up.

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,125
    Quote Originally Posted by gary_g View Post
    Based on the fact that Propane is the most expensive heating fuel.
    No it's not. Have you heard the price of fuel oil lately?

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,125
    Quote Originally Posted by platchford View Post
    Why would it save way more if matched with a heatpump? If matched with a heatpump then the gas furnace would be used far less due to only being used as the backup heating source. If the heatpump is properly sized then that should be a relatively small amount of time. Lets say the gas provides 20% of the heat during the winter. You'd only be saving 15% (tops) of the energy cost on a system that is only used 20% of the time.
    I have probably used 250-300 gallons of oil this winter (it is my secondary heat)... at $3 per gallon it cost me $900... 15% of this is $135... not worth it.
    Yes, but matching components make a system more efficient. Read ACDOCS post. A matched system is more efficient, and provides more comfortable air.

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    14
    Well I sure am glad I'm not a customer of any of you 'professional' folks who are all gun-ho over matched systems. Its quite simple to see that it would be a waste of money for me to replace my furnace now, and anyone who suggests that someone replace a 4-year old furnace just to have a 'matched' system is doing a great dis-service to their customer.

    Some numbers to back me up; Last year I spent $1100 on gas, of that about $800 was on heating costs. Now, going from an 80% efficient system to a 96% efficient system I'd save a whopping $133 a year. No way thats gonna be worth it. And thats ignoring any savings I'd get from a heat pump as well. Sure the Air con would be more efficient too, but it still not gonna come close to equaling what a new furnace would cost.

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,125
    Most customers understand the logic behind it. Maybe it's because we have more extreme weather conditions, especially in the winter here. People seem to want maximum efficiency form their systems. But you're going to have to replace that furnace someday. Maybe in 6-8 years. Then you're going to have an old A/C or heat pump..and you're going to have to decide if you want to replace just the furnace or the furnace and A/C. People do seem to be more willing to replace a newer A/C unit for one that will match up to a new furnace than they are willing to replace a newer furnace for one that matches up with a A/C system.

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