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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    657
    any opinions on whether or not the lineset should be changed on a system that is going from 22 to 410a. where i work we always change the lineset even if its the correct size

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    6,285
    IMO it's a good idea to change the line set......if it's impractical to do so then flushing should be acceptable with special attention to any traps or possible areas where the flush could sit....generally I would think a blow through with nitro after the flush would get the majority of the flush out.....always change filters dryer...and if it was a burnout add suction and liquid line filters for acid and follow up to check pressure/temp drop...after about a week or so remove the suction line filter....and you may need to add another depending on an acid test done to the system....It seems like a lot of extra work by the last thing you want is a contaminated new system.

    Of course that's worse case scenario where the old lines must stay in place and be reused.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    6,327
    TXLADY where are you Houston, Dallas, Austin you need to have a proper load calculatio performed and nail down the correct unit capacity. Guessing or going with what is existing is not an acceptable option. We have numerous contractors here from all over our great state.

    Baldy looks like she has a horizontal system and an Aspen coil is just fine I have one in my house.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    68,795
    The reg says no new units produced for use with R22.
    So making them to work with R22 would be a violation.
    Since R407C can be used in a system made fro R22. They could get away with it. But R407C uses POE anyway.

    Think about it this way. Compressor manufacturers have no real reason to push to continue to make R22 compressors, other then for warranty replacements.
    It cost them money to switch from one assembly to the next.

    Brand manufacturers have no reason either. It cost them money to switch from one to the next.

    All this fuse about the higher pressures of R410A is just chicken little BS.

    What brand doe this guy rep for.
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    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Marco Island, Fl
    Posts
    729
    Quote Originally Posted by davo View Post
    The "NEW STUFF" is R-410a. Carrier has been using it since 1996 under the name "Puron", and Lennox from around 1998 under the name, I believe, "Environ".

    R-410a systems have proved to be some of the most reliable equipment ever produced (according to manufacturer's and Copeland).

    I have been installing R-410 systems since before 1996 (we did beta testing for various manufacturers) and it is now over 90% of what we sell.

    R-410a is a "Azeotropic" blend. This means it almost completely forms a new, single substance.

    Some blends are not "Azeotropic" and the components will leak out at different rates if there is a refrigerant leak, causing reduced capacity.

    Time has proved this is not the case with R-410a, and systems with leaks can be "re-charged" using the remaining refrigerant over and over.

    R-410a used a Polyol Ester (POE) type synthetic oil that adsorbs, not absorbs, moisture fast. Liquid line Filter/Dryers must be used as regular evacuation techniques will not remove all the moisture. This is not a issue as all refrigeration guidelines call for the use of Filter dryers anyway.

    There is some concerns of the miscibility of the POE oil used in R-410a systems and the mineral oil used in the "OLD STUFF" R-22 systems. The two oils actually repel each other, possibly leading to adverse results. Once again, time has proved this to NOT be the case.
    On a retrofit situation, if the manufacturer's guidelines are followed for assuring most of the mineral oil is removed, this will not be an issue even when re-using the old copper lines (as long as they are properly sized).

    Do not have any contractor who bad mouths R-410a install a system using it, as they are probably not well versed in it's application and most failures are from improper installation technique, such as not using liquid line filter dryers and not pulling proper a vacuum, and improper refrigerant charging methods. You then will probably get a self-fulfilling prophecy of a "lemon" unit, when it is really poor installation.

    I would recommend Carrier or Lennox R-410a equipment over the other brands, simply because they have had it out there longer then other brands, and they are not "Learning" about it anymore.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    194
    I believe R-22 will be around many years in it's modified version as sold by Icor as Nu-22 and Dupont as MO59?. There is a facility here in town with a dozen R-22 units less than 10 years old and they are unlikely to change them out as the are all in the range of 80 to 200 tons. It is easy to tell a homeowner to spend a few thousand, not as easy to tell a company with serious competition to drop a few million. We have used Nu 22 for years just to see how it does and it work great in residential units. Have yet to try it in Trane's screw machines(Not willing to take the risk). I seriously doubt R-22 equipment will be phased out with this option, but I've been wrong before.

  7. #20
    NOTE TO CLASSICAL,

    We are in the Clear Lake area of Houston. I checked out your website. Looks like you're on the west side. BTW, Your dog Jessica could be the twin of one of our dogs.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    6,327
    Quote Originally Posted by txlady View Post
    NOTE TO CLASSICAL,

    We are in the Clear Lake area of Houston. I checked out your website. Looks like you're on the west side. BTW, Your dog Jessica could be the twin of one of our dogs.
    Jessica is a very sweet dog she is also very needy always looking for attention and touching. BTW she weighs 135# part Newfoundland and Border Collie.

    I do work in your area if you have not made up your mind, who are you talking to now. There are several very good contractors in your neck of the woods there are also several to definitely stay away from. Since you are closer to the coast sizing and proper equipment selection is critical, if you oversize or have the wrong coil mated you will have poor humidity control which will reduce comfort and increase utility cost.

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