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  1. #1

    Question Advice on new AC System

    We need to replace our AC. I have 2 quotes so far. One is for a 14SEER 3-1/2 ton Rheem, RAPC042JAZ, with an evap coil 24x21 Aspin 4 ton. This uses R22.

    The other is for a 3-1/2 ton Lennox 14SEER XC15-042 with Evap. CH23-51, which uses the new stuff. The Lennox is significantly higher in price.

    I'm hearing conflicting stories on the refrigerants. One says it is better to stay with the R22 because it is not a blend and that they had tried using a blend once before and it wasn't successful. Can anyone give me some insight into all of this. I'd like to make the right decision and get the best unit for the price. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    6,285
    The other ref. or 410A has been around 10 years and has worked fine for that period of time to people trained with it.

    You can choose either or but R-22 is being phased out at the moment and 2010 they will stop making new equipment with it in it. However there will still be parts available but the price of R-22 refrigerant is going to fluctuate.

    You probably need a load calculation done on your home to verify exactly what size system you will need. You in Texas and I'm sure it gets pretty humid there...de-humidification might be something to look into it will compliment the HVAC system well.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
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    34,038
    Both A/Cs are great units. I'm not a real fan of Aspen indoor coils. Not sure why they are going that route other than Rheem coils are rather pricey and hard to install out of the case.

    The rating on the XC15-042 with the CH23-51 coil is only 13 SEER so you are paying for an expensive outdoor unit and not getting any efficiency benefit. It takes a variable speed Lennox blower to get 14 SEER.

    You can do some searching around here for many threads on which refrigerant to go with. There is no correct answer, just opinions. R22 is getting pricey and will soon be more $$ than R410a and eventually will get harder to come by. But that's only a worry if you have a leak or major repair. With today's stuff, I'd get a long extended warranty and not have to worry about it with either refrigerant.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    6,285
    The other ref. or 410A has been around 10 years and has worked fine for that period of time to people trained with it.

    You can choose either or but R-22 is being phased out at the moment and 2010 they will stop making new equipment with it in it. However there will still be parts available but the price of R-22 refrigerant is going to fluctuate.

    You probably need a load calculation done on your home to verify exactly what size system you will need. You in Texas and I'm sure it gets pretty humid there...de-humidification might be something to look into it will compliment the HVAC system well.

    Other than having the load calc done I would pay attention to warranties they are always useful...things get expensive when you have something break and need a repair.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Marco Island, Fl
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    The "NEW STUFF" is R-410a. Carrier has been using it since 1996 under the name "Puron", and Lennox from around 1998 under the name, I believe, "Environ".

    R-410a systems have proved to be some of the most reliable equipment ever produced (according to manufacturer's and Copeland).

    I have been installing R-410 systems since before 1996 (we did beta testing for various manufacturers) and it is now over 90% of what we sell.

    R-410a is a "Azeotropic" blend. This means it almost completely forms a new, single substance.

    Some blends are not "Azeotropic" and the components will leak out at different rates if there is a refrigerant leak, causing reduced capacity.

    Time has proved this is not the case with R-410a, and systems with leaks can be "re-charged" using the remaining refrigerant over and over.

    R-410a used a Polyol Ester (POE) type synthetic oil that adsorbs, not absorbs, moisture fast. Liquid line Filter/Dryers must be used as regular evacuation techniques will not remove all the moisture. This is not a issue as all refrigeration guidelines call for the use of Filter dryers anyway.

    There is some concerns of the miscibility of the POE oil used in R-410a systems and the mineral oil used in the "OLD STUFF" R-22 systems. The two oils actually repel each other, possibly leading to adverse results. Once again, time has proved this to NOT be the case.
    On a retrofit situation, if the manufacturer's guidelines are followed for assuring most of the mineral oil is removed, this will not be an issue even when re-using the old copper lines (as long as they are properly sized).

    Do not have any contractor who bad mouths R-410a install a system using it, as they are probably not well versed in it's application and most failures are from improper installation technique, such as not using liquid line filter dryers and not pulling proper a vacuum, and improper refrigerant charging methods. You then will probably get a self-fulfilling prophecy of a "lemon" unit, when it is really poor installation.

    I would recommend Carrier or Lennox R-410a equipment over the other brands, simply because they have had it out there longer then other brands, and they are not "Learning" about it anymore.
    Last edited by davo; 04-02-2008 at 07:35 AM. Reason: R-410a is Azeotropic, not Near-Azeotropic

  6. #6
    OK, I think going with the 410A would be best. I got another quote for a Lennox. It's a 4 ton XC14-048, CH33-048 with the standard warranty of 10 years compressor, 5 year parts and 1 year labor. It is actually more than the offer on the Lennox XC15-042, CH23-51 which comes with a 10 year across the board warranty. I'm not sure why the latest quote is for a 4 ton rather than 3-1/2 which is what we currently have. I just noticed that. Anyway, which combination is best? When spending that much money, I want to make the best choice. BTW, this is a great forum and I appreciate your insight. Thanks!

  7. #7
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    Remember that bigger is not better. More cycles means lower efficiency and higher humidity. Also most duct systems are undersized for what you have, so if you go throwing a bigger unit them, you are really in trouble. Hope Mr. 4 ton knows what he's doing.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Marco Island, Fl
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    Remember that bigger is not better. More cycles means lower efficiency and higher humidity. Also most duct systems are undersized for what you have, so if you go throwing a bigger unit them, you are really in trouble. Hope Mr. 4 ton knows what he's doing.
    Agreed!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    67,874
    Either refrigerant will work fine.

    The company that told you that blends don't work. Must be planning on going out of business come 2010, when they won't make R22 units any more.

    As above, bigger could cause trouble. Unless the old 3.5 ton wasn't cooling right.
    Or it may be possible, that the new 3.5 ton units sensible rating isn't enough for your house.
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    courtland, va
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    everyone in the trade will have different opions on 22 and 410a. i dont think you will ever get anyone to agree on that subject. but check into optional warrenties with equipment and let the contractor deal with it for the next 10 years. buy on value not price please consumers are missled easy with a cheap price talk to your friends and get a referal or 2 on who 2 use.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    beenthere i have heard rumors that manufacturers will still make equipment designed for r-22. supposedly the units will br shipped with no r 22 in them. anyone else hear of this?

  12. #12
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    Apr 2007
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    That would kind of defeat the point of phasing it out...IMO


    I don't know why anyone would fight 410A....it the only way some of those real high efficiency systems can achieve such ratings.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    657
    oh i totally agree jon, thats something i heard from a rep. doesn't make much sense to me either. 75% of all units my company installs are 410a. the only time we don't install 410a is when there is a price issue for the customer.

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