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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4

    my 2 cents

    hi,


    I also live in Naperville and am looking for furnace. You may try to get the estimation via Trane & Home Depot promotion that they are currently running (I saw Trane's booth at the Home Depot at rd 59 & 75th intersection). They have a couple of nice rebates going till April 15th... The guy who came in for estimation was from ARS and I was able to negotiate a 15% off the quoted price... I'm still not decided yet though.


    -- vlad

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    68,770
    vladm.

    Have your furnace installed through HD.
    Then if everything is ok after a month, let the OP know if its ok to use HD or not.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4
    beenthere: what's wrong with that HD deal (no, really?).

    p.s. I wasn't recommending to OP installing anything, but considering estimation done.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    68,770
    Per say.
    Nothing. HD, is ok. If anything is not to your liking. You now have 2 companies to deal with, each saying its not them you have to complain to.
    Your also paying 2 commisions. HD's commision, and the actual contractors salesman's commision.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    chicago suburbs
    Posts
    4,422
    Quote Originally Posted by vladm View Post
    hi,


    I also live in Naperville and am looking for furnace. You may try to get the estimation via Trane & Home Depot promotion that they are currently running (I saw Trane's booth at the Home Depot at rd 59 & 75th intersection). They have a couple of nice rebates going till April 15th... The guy who came in for estimation was from ARS and I was able to negotiate a 15% off the quoted price... I'm still not decided yet though.


    -- vlad
    do you think your bid is higher or lower from HD than if you contacted ARS in the first place? feel free to email me too if you'd like. i'll be heading out by Scott next week.
    FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE!!

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Baltimore MD and Ridgebury PA
    Posts
    542
    Quote Originally Posted by dan sw fl View Post
    ANYWAY ... Rates need to be much higher still
    to get the average American interested in higher efficiency equipment.
    Hopefully electric rates will continue to be raised.

    Zero Energy Buildings initiative will take another 30 years.
    I could care less if there is a valid reason for the price increase. The increased cost of producing and supplying the energy for example. However, after this summer (when the next rate increase takes effect) the total price increase over prices from just 3 years ago will be 100%. Meanwhile the price to produce the electricity has not increased significantly. In fact, generally the price to produce electricity from coal has decreased recently and about 60% of our power is via coal. Another 30% or so is produced by Nuclear which has seen neither a significant decrease nor increase in production cost in recent years.

    The problem? When the deregulation laws were passed the wording was such that our utility is allowed to increase our rates based on the most expensive method of producing electricity at the time regardless of how much electricity is produced via that method. Natural Gas is the most expensive at this time and has seen the largest cost increase therefore our rates are based on natural gas even though less than 10% of our electricity supply comes from this method.

    This is not a well-known fact by the public but my father is on the consumer board of the electric utility that supplies their power in PA and they mentioned (at one of their meetings regarding rate increases) that my utility is doing this and getting away with it. As a matter of fact, the utility supplying my parent's power has had a 5% increase in rates over the pat 10-15 years and have no rate increases planned for several years at least.

    In any case, I don't know why anyone would really think electricity rates should increase just to increase. Thats insane.


    Quote Originally Posted by dan sw fl View Post
    If one spends $10,000 on a system with a savings of $100 per year, the pay back period is a rather lengthy 100 years.

    If one spends $2,000 on the incremental cost of a system with a calculated savings of $100 per year, the pay back period is ONLY 20 years.

    In other words, the calculated savings for the incremental cost of a more efficient system must be > $400 per year to meet a reasonable (customary) pay back period.
    Its funny you don't take into account that the payback period you calculated is based on zero change in utility rates given your previous statement that you are hopeful electric rates continue to be raised.

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,428

    Exclamation Long Term Impact

    Quote Originally Posted by platchford View Post
    1. In any case, I don't know why anyone would really think electricity rates should increase just to increase.

    2.
    ... account that the payback period you calculated is based on zero change in utility rates given your previous statement that you are hopeful electric rates continue to be raised.
    1. MD may just be a little Out-of-Control. If the electric rates are too high, MD is/will effectively controlling/control any population increase.

    Electric rate increases might just prepare you a little for
    ongoing/upcoming significant food cost increases.

    Increase rate = Decrease u$e
    Better Control of the global environment may be lead to
    sustaining human life a little longer.



    2. K.I.S.S.
    Perform the applicable math for Your situation!
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Baltimore MD and Ridgebury PA
    Posts
    542
    Quote Originally Posted by dan sw fl View Post
    1. Electric rate increases might just prepare you a little for ongoing/upcoming significant food cost increases.

    Increase rate = Decrease u$e
    Better Control of the global environment may be lead to
    sustaining human life a little longer.



    2. K.I.S.S.
    Perform the applicable math for Your situation!
    1. If the rates continue to increase then the food costs will too simply because it affects everything. Again, I disagree entirely on a system where the increase isn't based on an overall increase in cost. We're just lining the pockets of the utility companies and its a system that is very difficult in which to have real competition. While I agree that increased rates may lead to decreased use it is not a valid reason IMO to hope for increased rates. Besides, look at gas prices... there have been huge increases in the cost of fuel and yet there has been very little effect on use because people consider it a need. Educating people about slightly higher up-front cost vs long-term savings is a better solution.

    2. I don't need to perform the math myself. We both know if your math says it will take 20 years then taking in to account energy prices increasing it will take less than 20 years. How much less? That depends on the rate of energy price increases. Anyway, I just found it funny that you praised increases but didn't factor your praises in to the ROI period, nothing more.

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