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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    6

    Confused New Funace/AC in Naperville, IL

    I enjoy reading the forums and am now very confused. We have lived in the house one year

    I have had two Trane dealers come out and neither sales person has done any calculations, they just measure the old furnace size and ask a few general questions.

    Our house has the original furnace and I believe the original home owners added an addition (family room) to the house 20ftX30ft.

    I have read over and over that it is not the equipment, but the contractor that you choose that makes the difference. Thanks for that! I must be a product of marketing........

    I read that the 90+ efficiency gas furnaces require air intake/exhaust to the outside of the house. I also read that this helps bring in fresh/cleaner air. My wife is an asthmatic, but she won't get ride of the 2 dogs.... I have also read many posts on the air quality issue and I am thinking an expensive filter system would not be worth it with the dogs and many people feel they don't work that well.

    I have a couple of questions:

    I like the idea of the fresh air from outside, and I think I read that this helps the house because it creates a pressure outward instead of inward with a standard system. Is this true or did I misunderstand the posts?

    Also why are these sales people not doing a manual J calulation that determines the right size furnace and A/C unit?

    I am not sure how long we will live in the house and when it comes to resale the high efficiency furnace might give us an advantage over other houses that would be for sale.

    The features like the filter systems and humidifier are now very low on my list. Our house is about 2000 sq.ft and I am a single income person. When I got a quote in the $9k range for an 80% variable speed trane and a 13 seer AC unit with the Trane Aircleaner system and humidifier I almost had a heart attack (just kidding).

    So my thoughts are now to keep looking. A dealer with 15-30 years in the business and does not need to do calculations I should steer clear.

    Is there any systems I should steer clear of due to reliability issues?

    also the ac units have been the R22. Is this a problem? Or is it ok and the summers are warm in Chicago, but not overly hot as we have spent the past 16 years in Florida. Cold Yes hot No!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    2,876
    Quote Originally Posted by swooshwa View Post
    I enjoy reading the forums and am now very confused. We have lived in the house one year
    Glad to hear it...you will find alot of good info on here

    I have had two Trane dealers come out and neither sales person has done any calculations, they just measure the old furnace size and ask a few general questions. If they aren't doing caculations to properly size your new equipment...keep looking. Chances are if the sales guys are cutting corners so will everyone else in the company

    Our house has the original furnace and I believe the original home owners added an addition (family room) to the house 20ftX30ft.

    I have read over and over that it is not the equipment, but the contractor that you choose that makes the difference. Thanks for that! I must be a product of marketing........There are many different brands of equipment but it's not unlike Ford vs. Chevy....some have benefits over othere, you will have to decide what you are looking for out of a new system and choose accordingly...however no matter what you choose it will only be as good as your installers.

    I read that the 90+ efficiency gas furnaces require air intake/exhaust to the outside of the house. I also read that this helps bring in fresh/cleaner air. My wife is an asthmatic, but she won't get ride of the 2 dogs.... I have also read many posts on the air quality issue and I am thinking an expensive filter system would not be worth it with the dogs and many people feel they don't work that well.The 90% furnaces of today require a vent of plastic PVC pipe and can be run out the roof or out the side of the home, they do bring in fresh air also however use it for combustion not for circulation into the home.

    I have a couple of questions:

    I like the idea of the fresh air from outside, and I think I read that this helps the house because it creates a pressure outward instead of inward with a standard system. Is this true or did I misunderstand the posts?

    Also why are these sales people not doing a manual J calulation that determines the right size furnace and A/C unit? Because they are NO good at what they do....keep looking for someone who will.

    I am not sure how long we will live in the house and when it comes to resale the high efficiency furnace might give us an advantage over other houses that would be for sale. This can be very true

    The features like the filter systems and humidifier are now very low on my list. Our house is about 2000 sq.ft and I am a single income person. When I got a quote in the $9k range for an 80% variable speed trane and a 13 seer AC unit with the Trane Aircleaner system and humidifier I almost had a heart attack (just kidding). Although there are no pricing discussions allowed on here, keep in mind....you get what you pay for. There is a member on here who's signature says it best... "If you think a good technician is expensive, you should try a bad one"

    So my thoughts are now to keep looking. A dealer with 15-30 years in the business and does not need to do calculations I should steer clear. I would agree

    Is there any systems I should steer clear of due to reliability issues? All systems are made by man and therfore have the ability to fail at times, however a PROPER installation goes a long way to preventing this along with yearly maintenance.

    also the ac units have been the R22. Is this a problem? Or is it ok and the summers are warm in Chicago, but not overly hot as we have spent the past 16 years in Florida. Cold Yes hot No!R-22 is fine for where you live
    This is just my opinion of course...
    I need a new signature.....

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by I_bend_metal View Post
    also the ac units have been the R22. Is this a problem? Or is it ok and the summers are warm in Chicago, but not overly hot as we have spent the past 16 years in Florida. Cold Yes hot No!R-22 is fine for where you live
    This is just my opinion of course...
    Um, I live in the area, and it gets VERY hot and humid here at times, usually 15-25 days a year over 90 degrees. We also have high humidity for several months. Truly the best of both worlds, below freezing in the winter, and above 90 in the summer. Ask us why our roads suck.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,935
    You may have trouble finding a contractor to do a Manual J.
    Screen them over the phone so you don't waste both theirs and your time.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    chicago suburbs
    Posts
    4,422
    i'm local and i can help. click on my profile and email me.
    FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE!!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    2,876
    Quote Originally Posted by charliebear View Post
    Um, I live in the area, and it gets VERY hot and humid here at times, usually 15-25 days a year over 90 degrees. We also have high humidity for several months. Truly the best of both worlds, below freezing in the winter, and above 90 in the summer. Ask us why our roads suck.
    I guess the OP must have lived in the deep south....I lived in Mobile Al for 4 years...those summers made our summers here in Ohio a cake walk. It's all relative my friend...15 to 25 days above 90 is really nothing when it comes to the south....it was nothing to see 90 degrees for 3 months strait...thats with about 90% humidity also!
    I need a new signature.....

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,274

    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by swooshwa View Post
    I enjoy reading the forums and am now very confused. We have lived in the house one year

    I have had two Trane dealers come out and neither sales person has done any calculations, they just measure the old furnace size and ask a few general questions.

    Our house has the original furnace and I believe the original home owners added an addition (family room) to the house 20ftX30ft.

    Also why are these sales people not doing a manual J calulation that determines the right size furnace and A/C unit?

    The features like the filter systems and humidifier are now very low on my list.

    Our house is about 2000 sq.ft and I am a single income person.

    When I got a quote in the $109k range for an 80% variable speed trane and a 13 seer AC unit with the Trane Aircleaner system and humidifier I almost had a heart attack (just kidding).

    A dealer with 15-30 years in the business and does not need to do calculations I should steer clear.
    What did the contractor say when
    you told them about the 600 sq foot addition
    ?


    What did your wife say
    when you told her
    You do Not care that she is asthmatic?
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Baltimore MD and Ridgebury PA
    Posts
    542
    Quote Originally Posted by dan sw fl View Post

    What did your wife say
    when you told her
    You do Not care that she is asthmatic?
    I was under the impression that they are currently low on his priority list because of his previous statement "My wife is an asthmatic, but she won't get rid of the 2 dogs.... I have also read many posts on the air quality issue and I am thinking an expensive filter system would not be worth it with the dogs and many people feel they don't work that well." If he believes that the system would not be worth it due to the dogs and people feeling they don't work so well then its not because he doesn't care for his wife but rather he is under the impression that the system would be ineffective in such conditions. If his impression is incorrect than educate him rather than ridicule him.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    6
    Charliebear, Yes it does get hot in Chicago, I lived in Orlando for 10 years and St. Pete for 6 and that is what I was comparing it to. My mother in law is moving in with us due to her age and we will need to make sure it is comfortable for her both in Winter and Summer.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    6
    Dan, I showed both sales people the room and there is only one 4 inch vent for the room and it has 3 windows and a door. They both said they could run another duct over to the room to help improve the comfort level in the room. Price seemed reasonable for the vent

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    6
    Platchford Thanks, That is exactly what I meant! Sorry if it sounded like I did not care about my wife. We do have two Honeywell Hepa units in the house to help.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    DC Metro Area (MD)
    Posts
    3,371
    I suggest a media air filter for improved air filtration, especially with a variable speed blower, if you can afford the additional cost.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,274

    Confused IAQ Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by swooshwa View Post

    We have lived in the house one year

    Our house has the original furnace and I believe the original home owners added an addition (family room) to the house 20ftX30ft.

    I read that the 90+ efficiency gas furnaces require air intake/exhaust to the outside of the house. I also read that this helps bring in fresh/cleaner air. My wife is an asthmatic, but she won't get ride of the 2 dogs.

    I have a couple of questions:

    1. I like the idea of the fresh air from outside, and I think I read that this helps the house because it creates a pressure outward instead of inward with a standard system. Is this true or did I misunderstand the posts?

    2. Also why are these sales people not doing a Manual J calculation that determines the right size furnace and A/C unit?

    ... high efficiency furnace might give us an advantage over other houses that would be for sale.

    The features like the filter systems and humidifier are now very low on my list.

    Our house is about 2000 sq.ft and I am a single income person.

    When I got a quote in the $xk range for an 80% variable speed trane
    and a 13 seer AC unit with the Trane Aircleaner system and humidifier I almost had a heart attack (just kidding).
    IAQ / Special Needs
    1. IAQ .. Broan Plus

    http://www.broan.com/display/router.asp?ProductID=3742

    Run intermittently
    with the fan controller on a thermostat with this feature .. now common on all but the basic thermostat

    2. Fan Cycler ... see for discussion only
    a. http://www.fancycler.com/need/default.htm

    b. ASHRAE 62.2
    http://www.energycodes.gov/news/2005...entilation.pdf

    3. Send me ( see my profile) drawing (room air distribution) or
    pictures ( whole house sizing) if you wish to have a correctly sized
    Dual fuel set-up ... furnace and heat pump

    http://www.energyright.com/heatpump/dualfuel.htm

    4. Humidifier ...
    http://www.ewccontrols.com/steam_humidifier.htm
    or similar

    ... Needed for Chicago and more so when Outside Air (ventilation)
    is used in the winter.
    Last edited by dan sw fl; 03-30-2008 at 07:51 AM.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

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