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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,326
    I feel for you. As you will find out most contractors will stand up and do the right thing. Did you try to get resolution? Is the contractor aware of your issues? As an owner, I try to make sure that my clients are completely satisfied prior to paying the invoice. Do small things sometimes get missed? yes of course, but most guys will take care of them. Speak with the guy. if he blows you off, then you have a reason to go after him. Di something go wrong.....sounds like it. Did you give him the chance to make good......doesnt sound like you did, YET. Try it you may just be surprised!

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    41

    ?????

    i know it was a big investment and all, but you aren't really telling us anything. i would drop the drama and get on with the story. i do think excruciating is a code violation.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,841
    Quote Originally Posted by DanW13 View Post
    "... I don't see that it matters if the contractor came in with the lowest bid or the highest bid the work should be just as good as the highest bid contractor.....
    Obviously you're naive and don't understand the industry. Our company provides the highest level of installation expertise and the best warranties in the industry. That means we have to pay more for installers, drug testing, background checks, experience and knowledge. Those installers come at a higher price than the ones who smoke pot while waiting for stock at the supply house and the ones who can't get a job in a good shop because of their arrest records and criminal past. Our service techs attend endless classes with manufacturers and even 1/2 hour ever single workday morning ON THIER OWN TIME just trying to better themselves for the benefit of the client and the company. These people require high pay and good benefits. Our trucks are all lettered so you know who's in your dirveway and our men are all uniformed so you know where they came from. Even if there are 4 or 5 other companies working simultaneously, you can always find our guys easily. So yes, our prices are considerably higher than most of our competitors. The fact that we do it correctly, with Manuals 'J', 'D' and 'S' being followed and guarantee all of our work and the integrity and opreration of the system costs more. If you think you'll get the same car for $13,000 as you do for $43,000, think again. Same thing in our industry. You get what you pay for. Choose the low bid, throw yourself under the bus. When the bus runs over you, blame yourself. If you're going to make an investment of many thousands of dollars, you can gamble and save two or three thousand, then spend that and more either getting it brought up to standards or fighting to get the original low bid to do it the way you WANTED it done but weren't williing to PAY to have it done. You get what you pay for. The man made a legitimate statement in my book. If the claimant took the low bid, he's probably not going to get much satisfaction from the low bidder. That's just the way it works in reality. That may not meet with your approval but that's the way it is here in Dodge City, pardner.
    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    132
    Or one of your lead man that you have trained and schooled could leave and be the low bidder andgive him just as good or better job than your company at a lower price Remember this is America

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,841
    Quote Originally Posted by Dog View Post
    Or one of your lead man that you have trained and schooled could leave and be the low bidder andgive him just as good or better job than your company at a lower price Remember this is America
    Not likely. We run a very open company. Any of our personnel is more than welcome to inspect the books at any time. And they have. They know what it costs to provide the level of installation expertise and warranties and guarantees we provide. So far, in 20-years, we've never lost anyone who's gone into business himself. The make good enough money to stick around and not have to worry about how to bring in the next lead.
    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    419

    Overhead

    Wow, I can tell you one thing, I don't smoke pot while waiting for stock, and I can say that I will often be on the lower side of bidding. I have testimonials, stating that my work is quality, and correct. The reason I would be at the lower side, is my overhead doesn't consist of uniforms. I have a complete, stocked truck, I always look professional when going to work, I have invested in a decent stock of necessary materials- I even have competitors call me for parts over the weekends, and a I have better knowledge of my trade than many of my competitors by investing in many evening training classes, countless nights on the internet researching my trade, reading trade magazines and books. I have no overhead. My bills are paid for, my truck,tools, and inventory are paid for. Because I am sometimes the low bidder, does not mean that my work is not quality. Because I have no overhead and a low bid, does not mean that the next customer I work for will not receive the same quality work as a shop that has new trucks, high priced mechanics , drug tests, and uniforms,? Perhaps, I just don't know how to bid. There are many reasons for a low bid, and I can tell you, that I am prepared for a tough 2008. I read in the PHC magazine today that it is a bleak outlook for resdiential constructio in 2008. I am glad I have no overhead, and I can say with pride, that I am glad I looked out for my future when things were busy in 05-06. Not everyone will be able to say that. I know one thing, the first rule of business, when receivables aren't coming in, you must cut your expenses. And people costs are the highest expense.

    Keep in mind, there will always be a low bidder, and that, is never the best gauge for quality of work. The ONLY way to know that, is to research the company that you intend on using prior to the start of the project. Most quality contractors that I know, will supply testimonials, pictures, and even have job sites that you can look at.

    You have never answered the question yet, have you spoken with the installing contractor about your concerns ? What did he do so badly, that you have lost faith in him ? Have you given him the opportunity to fix his/your issues ?

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Suppy NC
    Posts
    4,516
    Quote Originally Posted by irwin_fletcher View Post
    Hi,

    We just went through an excruciating experience with a full system replacement. Short story is that we have some physical damage to the equipment and to our home and lots of things went wrong along the way. I don't want to go into any details while this is still pending and I won't release the contractor's name.

    I need advice on how to proceed. Based on the installation experience, I have no confidence that this thing is going to last, or that the huge investment I made is not in jeopardy.

    Should I pay another HVAC contractor to inspect it or would they even do that? What about American Standard? Is there a factory rep near Austin, TX that I could call?

    How do I ensure that the contractor fixes or pays to fix the damage to our house?

    Any help or advice would be really appreciated.

    fletch

    If you have concerns about the new system then call the manufacture express your concerns and ask to have thier rep come and look it over. Keep in mind if the rep comes he will also bring the installing comtractor with him

  8. #21
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    122
    well said skip
    There is always going to be a place for small one and two man operations, the down fall is customer service. there are only so many hrs in the day, when the phone starts ringing, your stuck in the position of making money on the calls that are coming in, or taking care of your customer and chance loosing a new one, it is a tough position to be in. The smaller guys have great loyal customers and have a great relationship with them. The problem is when they do have a problem and they cant wait for you. Or have lost confidence in you or your one or two employees. A large company has the resources to satisfy more complaints and handle more potential customers. customer may see a new face here and there and it is just not as personal of an experiance..And they charge more...there are pro's and cons to both...

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cedar Grove, Wi-Sheboygan
    Posts
    1,582
    Skippedover I am not going to get into a nasty arguement here over what I said and I surely am not NAIVE !!!! I could high light some of your analogies and repost them here especially when you compare cars to your trade and say you get what you pay for is really a terrible comparison for you to use, I know what this industry is as well as others of how they work and operate I really do, Do you really think everyone has to pay high dollars to get quaility workmanship. But here the problem was the install not the equipment and to say if you go with a low bidder your not going to get a quaility install is ludicrious to say the least, and to insinuate that getting the contractor who was one of the highest bids will get a good install is way out of line as well. I am sure there are alot of guys here on this forum that can prove you wrong on your theory of high bid better job, low bid bad job. If a small contractor does low bidding and quaility work why does the majority in this forum always feel people are not going to get the same or better quaility of service than a high bidding contractor who has more guys working for him, I just do not understand that thinking !!! My contractor who has himself and 3 other guys work for him do great work and also give quaility service to his customers just the same if not better than a large outfit who may have 20 guys working for him, service is service and should not matter if that same service is coming form a large or small company, or from one who was the low bidder. If the guy is able to bid the same job with the same parts and same service more power to him and as dynamic stated the little guy might not have the overhead as he may have the trunks paid for, the shop paid for, and is able to pay for all his tools and equipment upfront, and have all parts on his trunk paid which enables him to bid jobs low. Maybe he does all his own hiring and firing and is able to hire competent people without having to worry about POT HEADS, or the like, there's alot little guys who give the same quaility service as the bigger outfit's in this world it's just a matter of how far they stick there necks out into the furture for work and later get themselves into a bind because they can not do all the work they promised 3 or 4 months ealier when they were slow and needing "job security". I have see this happen with alot of contractors and not just in this trades either. So I don't think the small guy or low bidder should always get the blame because they are who they are or because they came in on the low end and won the job. And as far as equipment goes that should not matter as it's all about the proper install not the equipment, granted you can only convince the customer of doing so much as far as suggesting they do this or that and have this installed now and not later as that may play a role in the call back end of things because of the customers failure of not going with what the contractor suggested prior to the install. But bottom line is big or small, low or high equipment is equipment and craftmanship will always have your name on it.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    122
    Dan w

    It sounds like you found a great contractor, and your happy with him. Are you a general contractor? A large contractor cannot mach the price of a smaller company for many reasons. I can tell you of the low bidder nightmare installs that I have seen and repaired. Some have been so bad we have to refuse to work on them untill the unit was reinstalled, I have lost our customers to only return and give estimates to reinstall the unit. that being said. When I come upon a customer and I know he is going to shop around I will give him the name of companies that are lower in price and do great work. we are getting off topic here....

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Howell, Michigan
    Posts
    16,184
    Quote Originally Posted by irwin_fletcher View Post
    Hi,

    I don't want to go into any details while this is still pending and I won't release the contractor's name.

    fletch

    Fletch,

    Bad idea, do not name that contractor. Thanks!

    Bob

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    12,921
    Quote Originally Posted by HeyBob View Post
    Fletch,

    Bad idea, do not name that contractor. Thanks!

    Bob

    Twilli says thanks HeyBob, Twilli don't need the bad press
    No Heat No Cool You need Action Fast

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    12,921
    Quote Originally Posted by skippedover View Post
    Not likely. We run a very open company. Any of our personnel is more than welcome to inspect the books at any time. And they have. They know what it costs to provide the level of installation expertise and warranties and guarantees we provide. So far, in 20-years, we've never lost anyone who's gone into business himself. The make good enough money to stick around and not have to worry about how to bring in the next lead.

    Twilli isn't really sure thats such a good testimony.
    No Heat No Cool You need Action Fast

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