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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    8

    Infinity ICS or Infinity 96 with new Infinity Heat Pump?

    We've decided to have an Infinity Hybrid System installed as part of our home renovation in Portland, Oregon. We're going with the Infinity 25HNA6 16 SEER heat pump + electrostatic air cleaning system + 3 zones. We're evaluating whether to go with the Infinity ICS or the Infinity 96 as our natural gas-fired furnance.

    Based on the input from our HVAC contractor, he says that 40 degrees is the set point he uses typically for Infinity Hybrid Systems in our area. Assuming a 40 degree set point, my question is whether or not we'll get the added benefit of the 3-stage burner in the ICS or whether the 2-stage burner in the Infinity 96 will be just fine.

    Assuming that the furnance will kick in at 40 degrees, then I would assume that it would need to run at least at the medium stage of the ICS burner and the lower (or perhaps upper, I'm not sure) stage of the Infinity 96. If my assumption is correct (and it may not be), then it would seem that when using the ICS in a Hybrid System, you don't realize the benefit of its lower stage of its 3-stage burner, as when it kicks in, presumably it will not be using the lowest stage.

    IdealComfort™ technology: The ICS has Carrier's new "IdealComfort" technology, whereas apparently the 96 does not. What are the advantages, if any, of the "IdealComfort" technology when used as part of my hybrid system?

    Oops, forgot another question: Carrier describes the Infinity ICS as the "Quietest furnace you can buy." So, why is the ICS more quiet than the 96? How much more quiet?

    I will greatly appreciate your input on this question (ICS vs. 96) and any other thoughts/comments on the system we're hoping to have installed.

    Thank you very much for your expert input.

    Cheers,
    Last edited by lucylab; 03-22-2008 at 03:52 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cedar Grove, Wi-Sheboygan
    Posts
    1,582
    I had the Infinity MVC58 model furnace installed in my home about 3 week's ago. Prior to signing the contract I asked my Installer for a few people to call and I even went to one of his installs to look at his work and they happen to have the Infinity 96 funrace installed of which when running was very quiet, so quiet infact I had to lean down next to the furnace and hold my ear next to the unit to hear the furnace run !!! According to Carrier's brochure on the Infinity furnace's the model 96 is quiet and the MVC58 is just alittle louder than a whisper conversation and believe me it is incredibly quiet, and after having my installed I had to go downstairs all the time in the first week just to re-assure myself that it was still running, LOL !!! Givien you situation I would assume having the Infinity 96 model furnace would be more than ample for your climate since your set point would be so high, and I think you answered your own question as to weather or not the 3rd stage would even run that much if at all, and for the extra money you would have to pay for the ICS system you could put in to use on some other bell's and whistles.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    8
    DanW13,

    Thanks for the info.

    IdealComfort™ technology? The ICS has it and the 95 apparently doesn't. Do you know what advantages/advances are in the "IdealComfort Technology" that I should be aware of before making my decision?

    Thanks.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,837
    With the ICS, you'd find it runs very little on max or what we call 3rd stage. The reason is that the majority of the weather is warmer than maximum (or minimum if you prefer) design load, which means the coldest temperature at which the furnace can maintain 72-degrees indoors. Let's assume that' -10*F for the sake of illustration. If the HP turns off at 40, then the furnace takes over below that temp. It will likely run down to about 25-degrees on 1st stage. Below that temperature (remember, this is just an example) 2nd stage will kick on and be good down to about 10-degrees, below which you'll need 3rd stage furnace heat. With the 2-stage fire, you'd be at max output (High heat) from about 25-degrees and below. So the long, long heat cycles are realized better with the 3-stage than with 2. Kind of like having 3-gears in your cars transmission instead of just 2. It give better, more comfortable performance. As for noise, the only time you'll ever know the furnace is running is when it steps up to high fire and you'll likely be sound asleep when it does that!! I'd definitely go with the ICS.
    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Northern Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,016
    I'd suggest going with the ICS because of the zoning. This unit will better fit sizing of one zone only calling giving you better comfort and possibly less air noises.
    Use the biggest hammer you like, pounding a square peg into a round hole does not equal a proper fit.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    PA/DE area
    Posts
    1,535
    I sell 58mvc only,but we are in a HEATING market,they stopped stocking mvb in alot of sizes around here.
    It's NOT the BRAND,it's the company that installs it!!!!!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cedar Grove, Wi-Sheboygan
    Posts
    1,582
    Well I can tell you this I keep my furnace running on low fan speed 24/7 and the furnace has been keeping everything very nice in my home, granted my home has a fair amount of insulation, the windows are all thermopayne's so I guess you can say put against my 20 yrold Tempstar of which would have been good for another 5 yrs there's no comparing the 2 the Infinity wins hands down, I runs my humidifier so I don't have to run up and down to reajust the humidstat, it base's what stage heating it needs based on set point temp and od temp and adjust itself accordingly, it just does it all no matter what extra appliance's you have connected to your furnace it will control it. I am planning on zonning for my house next year, and when the ac unit goes on me I will be installing the other half of the hybred system for a complete package. Depending on how cold it gets in your area anyone of the 2 furnace's will be good for you just depends if your have the extra money for the upgrade.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    The South
    Posts
    2,207
    lucy

    my information is that Portland's average low winter temperature is around 37 degrees. You will never get any real utililization or cost eff benefit from a hybrid system over a properly sized two stg heat pump system. In other words, with a Carrier Infinity furnace, you will rarely use it. But if you use nat gas for other uses in your home and just like the idea of gas backup, then I would go just for the two stg Infinity 96 unless the price difference between the 96 and ICS is inconsequential.

    Run the numbers on attached fuel comparison calculator link.

    IMO

    http://www.warmair.com/html/fuel_cost_comparisons.htm

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    STL Metro East
    Posts
    20
    We live right across the river from St Louis, MO. and have the hybrid heat setup with a 60,000 BTU MVC furnace and a 3ton 25HNA9 heat pump, the changeover is set to 36°. Our house is tri-level with one zone for the two upper levels (1462 sq. ft.) and one for the lower level (1376 sq.ft.). My wife teaches piano lessons in the lower level and there are always people home, so we keep both levels at 72° in the winter and 76° in the summer. The system was installed just before December 2007, and as of today the furnace has run 704 hours on low, 93 hours on medium, and 9 hours on high. The heatpump has run 365 hour on low and 7 hours on high. December was normal to warmer than average, but the last three months have been colder than normal. Our house may not be typical since the design heat loss at 8° is less than 30,000 BTU/hr (insulated concrete forms, R45 ceiling, triple pane windows). In our climate, the heatpump would have no problem heating the house down to 20° or slightly higher, so if you don't get colder than that regularly, the hybrid system may be overkill for you. However, if you do decide to get the ICS, it will almost certainly spend most of its time running at the lowest stage. We leave the fan running at low speed all the time, so I have no idea whether the furnace is running or not until the heat goes to medium or high.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    The South
    Posts
    2,207
    for Teeoff

    not meaning to get off subject, but I am curious about your running hr numbers on your hybrid system. I do not know your electric rates or nat gas rate. But doesn't the heat pump numbers indicate your changeover setpoint between HP and gas furnace is set too high and should be lowered? Perhaps you are satisfied with the performance but having a setpoint so high might be defeating the utilization of your HP.

    Just a thought.

    IMO

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    STL Metro East
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdunes View Post
    for Teeoff

    not meaning to get off subject, but I am curious about your running hr numbers on your hybrid system. I do not know your electric rates or nat gas rate. But doesn't the heat pump numbers indicate your changeover setpoint between HP and gas furnace is set too high and should be lowered? Perhaps you are satisfied with the performance but having a setpoint so high might be defeating the utilization of your HP.

    Just a thought.

    IMO
    I could move the setpoint lower, but the cost difference between the natural gas and electricity is very low here. The 36° setting keeps the heatpump out of the defrost cycle most of the time, and gives us a more comfortable heat as the temp drops below freezing. I prefer the gas heat below 32° to 36°, but the heatpump is much more comfortable to me above these temperatures. If the cost of natural gas jumps faster than the cost of electricity, I would not hesitate to lower the switchover point.

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