Tell me what I need

[echo8287]

You guys have helped me in the past, thanks. I am a licensed plumber and electrician by trade.At the end of last summer my Lennox HS 14 went out and my Lennox Pulse(propane) furnace is on its last leg( I know about the heat exchangers).

Its now time to replace everything. I have good Lennox and Trane dealers nearby that I sometimes work with on jobs. I am just starting my search for equipment. The house is in Ga.(high humidity) and is a 2400sq ft.ranch with a basement(very well insulated,2x6 exterior walls,basement is nearly all underground with insulation on the outside of poured walls and under slab, 1" foam outside of that and 16inches insulation in the attic). The Pulse was a 60,000btu and the HS14 was a 2-1/2 ton on high. The duct work is all metal, with supplys and returns in each bedroom and a large one in the living room.4 bedroom house with a dining room up stairs and one room and a bath in the basement conditioned.

I want to get the most efficient replacement system with a Hepa type filter system. I need your suggestions on system type>split,dual fuel,heat pump etc. The electric rate is reasonable and I have propane which is high at this time. 200gal this year was $500.00. It was a warm winter and I did not use the whole tank this year but usually I used 1-1/2 tanks(300gallons) a year propane with the old Pulse(96% efficient I think). I have all types of water heaters installed(electric,instant,&propane tank) and can change to any one of those with some valves. I might be interested in heat recovery system if it would help the A/C equipment. I can provide any other information in a later post. Thank you for any insights, David

[Skip 2 my lou]

First things first. Why do you say your pulse furnace is on its last legs? The pulse furnaces are more difficult to work on, but Lennox had a lifetime warranty on some of them. I have had one case where the existing lennox pulse needed some parts, that lennox didn't carry anymore, so they supplied a new 90+ furnace and paid me to install it.

[echo8287]

Well I haven't had the heat exchanger inspected for about 3 years, and the unit is 22 years old. I also think that their is a problem with the gas valve, because when it sits for a long while, there is a loud thump when it fires and comes on. Gas must be settling in the combustion chamber, then whomp when it ignites.This can't be good for the combustion chamber.It is a propane unit. If it is going on and off(when its cold outside) frequently it doesn't do this. I replaced the spark plug,ignitor,and the intake gasket last year. Replaced the board about 5 years ago. The fan is the original unit. I have become proficient at working on it, just from fooling around with it. It has been a good unit >22 years seems good to me. I wish they would send me a new one for free then I'd just add another condensing unit and be good to go. David

[dan sw fl]

You guys have helped me in the past, thanks. I am a licensed plumber and electrician by trade.

I am just starting my search for equipment.

The house is in Ga.(high humidity) and is a 2400 sq ft. ranch with a basement (very well insulated, 2x6 exterior walls, basement is nearly all underground with insulation on the outside of poured walls and under slab, 1" foam outside of that and 16 inches insulation in the attic).

The Pulse was a 60,000btu and the HS14 was a 2-1/2 ton on high.

The duct work is all metal, with supplys and returns in each bedroom and a large one in the living room. 4 bedroom house with a dining room up stairs and one room and a bath in the basement conditioned.

I want to get the most efficient replacement system with a Hepa type filter system. I need your suggestions on system type>
split, dual fuel, heat pump etc.

The electric rate is reasonable and I have propane which is high at this time. 200gal this year was $500.00.

I can provide any other information in a later post. Thank you for any insights, David

16 SEER / 9.2 HSPF heat pump, 2-stage compressor
Variable Speed air handler with 5" pleated filter rated at MERV 11.

You may wish to consider zoning.

Electric strip would likely be sufficient as a heater back-up for outdoor temperatures < the balance point ( generally 28' - 35'F)
and running during defrost mode.

Sizing of _ ton heat pump and __ kW electric strips
obviously needs to be determined by performing ACCA Manual J
calculation for your speciifc building envelope.

Check existing ductwork based on new air flow
and determine total TEL & ESP based on ACCA Manual D.

[davo]

The HS14 is a two speed unit that was only available in 3,4, or 5 tons.

The 3 ton put out about 41,000 btu in high.
The 4 ton put out about 51,000 btu in high.
The 5 ton put out about 65,000 btu in high.

These ratings varied with the indoor coil selection.

Be careful of what you get prices on.

[echo8287]

I guess the HS 14 was a 3 ton unit as I remember it was the smallest of that model. It has worked fine, although it was the second one I had installed as lightening hit the first one. The last one is about 9 years old.
Dan the ductwork is all metal,the supply coming off the top of the Pulse is 21x21 goes up hits a vaned T and goes both ways from the center in the basement.The return has a 24x20 plenum box on the side bottom of the Pulse and then transitions to 2- 14x10 returns that travel both directions from the center of the basement. All the bedrooms,hall,dining room,living room have a supply and return. Air flow is quite, Pulse is NOT.
I've never had a heat pump before, so are they a lot better than they used to be? It really doesn't get too cold for too long where I'm at in Ga, so a heat pump might be good. What about dual fuel, how does the cost of the units compare with a high efficiency HP? Are there any advantages or disadvantages to dual fuel. I only have the Pulse and a propane water heater on the gas at this time, everything else is electric. I went by the Trane dealer today and I will call him tomorrow, he also sells Amana and another brand. Thanks for the replies,David

[tinknocker service tech]

i agrre with dan on the heat pump
i also to add to this would recomend a heat pump and keep the pulse
have it serviced and a tune up kit to replace all the old ignition parts.

as long as it passes the presure test and with the tune up kit you will have a cleaner ignition and the unit will in most cases run quiter. Wit the heat pump you will only need the furnace on the colder days and for defrost. Saving you on propane

[AcDOCnTRAINING]

I would strongly recommend the Bryant Evolution system, its a amazing machine. Its top of the line when it comes to Dehumidifing. You can go with high eff fuel or heat pump, both come with the EVO. control version for maximum eff. They also offer the ten year parts and labor warranty,so its a win win

[echo8287]

?

[echo8287]

tin knocker, I have worked on the old Pulse many times myself and understand it fully. I changed all the ignition parts last year. They are kinda hard to get to,had to use a flexible mirror to see them. I was wondering if I could use the Pulse with a new heat pump unit. I would have to get one of my local Lennox dealers to test the heat exchanger again. I think it needs a new gas valve too, if you read my first post. I replaced the board about 5 years ago. Can I put an ECM fan motor in the Pulse??
A/C Doc>I will look into the Bryant equipment. In Georgia the humidity is brutal in the summer. thats what I liked about the HS14 2 speed Lennox A/C unit running on low. That unit quit at the end of last summer and I didn't get it fixed yet. Thought it might be time for new equipment.

A couple of questions about heat pumps in general??? Size wise is the outdoor unit that much bigger than say a large A/C unit? Which companies make better heat pumps? I've been reading posts for a couple of days and I see where some people don't like Trane HP and they like Lennox HP. Seems Carrier is better these days than it used to be. There is a big Rheem plant not to far away from me. I sometimes work with several Lennox, Trane,Rheem,Amana,American Standard dealers on jobs where I am the plumber or electrician. I'll have to look for a Bryant/Carrier dealer. The spot where the HP or A/C unit is on a patio on the east side of my house. If the unit is very large I'll have to change the area where it will sit> that could be a minus. After reading some tonight, looks like dual fuel with propane/HP isn't as cost efficient as HP with strips. Assuming low electricity rates(I think my rates are.08/ kw). Propane has got outrageous. Used to pay $250 for 200 gallons now $500 for same amount. I was going to get a 1000 gallon tank and tell the propane supplier to only fill when the price is low in the summer time. David

[beenthere]

Telling your supplier to only fill a 1000 gal tank in the summer when the price is low.
Is like telling a kid in a candy store to only pick candy that is low in sugar.

At 8 cents a KW, your elecyric is low enough that a HP with elec aux would be cheaper heat then you LP is.

[AcDOCnTRAINING]

In that neck of the woods I would go heat pump, depending on your heat usage it may be the most eff. way to go. Trane is a good unit i have sold it in the past & still do when its special requested. However, 95&#37; of the time when I show the customerr a American Standard unit & Trane unit side by side they can't tell the diffrence till I quote the price . They are build by the same manuf. THE TRANE COMPANY. Lennox I'm sorry to say I just say NO! several bad experience, and just a very over priced unit. Bryant for me is my top seller and just have the highest customer over all satisfaction. They equipment has incredible advance technology which customers find very inpresive. The interface control on the evolution system is so simple, just tell it the temptaure and Relative humidity you want and sit back and relax. The thermostat Control is in constant communication with both AHU and Outdoor condenser. Here maybe this will explian it a little better also type in your zip code in the right hand box, it will give you a listing of authorized Bryant dealers in your area. GOOD LUCK

http://www.bryant.com/products/achea...volution.shtml

[echo8287]

Beenthere, thanks for the reply. I am considering the heat pump. In the past when gas was cheaper, I would rather have gas. In these days with the improvement in heat pumps I'm thinking of going that way. I hope it ain't like diesel. I bought a diesel truck when when diesel was cheaper than regular. I had it about 6 months and then it went higher than regular. Today $4.00 a gallon>reg gas 3.29
A/C Doc The local Trane(Amana and guy is coming tomorrow to have a look. I have known him for a good while,they do a good job and are a reputable dealer. I looked at the Bryant stuff last night after your comments. It looks like nice stuff. What equipment do you suggest I ask about in the Bryant line? I just did a search for the Bryant dealers in my area. Only one showed up and I would not use those guys at any cost, so I'd have to find one further away. Do any of yall know if I can put a ECM motor in the old Pulse? and make it varible speed. I could use it as a backup, and get a better HP as the outdoor unit. Thanks, David

[beenthere]

Currently they don't have an ECM upgrade for 120 volt applications.

[echo8287]

Trane dealer came out today. I've known him for a good while. He suggested a Trane 2 speed scroll HP outdoor unit 4 ton with either my old Lennox Pulse or a new 90 Trane indoor unit. Will price it several ways.
1. Can I put a varible speed fan motor in the old Pulse? I forgot to ask him that.
2. He suggested Trane's air cleaner unit. Are there others I should investigate that are better?
3. He said the HP would fit in the space where my existing A/C unit is>no problem there. What would the electrical requirements generally be for a 4 ton HP unit?
4. He advised changing the line set lines with the newer refridgerent,which won't be a problem
5. He said my ductwork was done very well and probably way better than you would get today. I asked about cleaning the old ductwork and he said they had a duct cleaning machine.
6. What T-stat would be the best for the Trane unit?
Thanks ,David

[aircooled53]

Hybrid Heat ~ Carrier

Carrier 2~stage propane for back-up
Infinity Controller
Pure Air Filter system
Infinity 17.0 Heat Pump

Rebate would be 1200.00 on this system from Carrier and 24 months same as cash ..

[gohigh]

Echo, thought I would throw my two cents worth in since I am in Ga. as well

Built a house a little over a year ago 2400sqft ranch on full basement. We had a heat pump installed going with the Carrier Infinity system. This is just like if not the same system as the Bryant Evolution. One word describes it AMAZING. Never did I think that paying top dollar for a system would pay off so fast. The thermostat control is only the start for a system that when zoned measures the static air pressure in the duct and adjust the variable speed of the blower for the demand that is needed. Combine that with a two speed outdoor unit which rubs on low most of the time and you have a very efficient unit.

Your the same place as me. Inside temps 75 summer (removes so much humidity anything less is to cool) 70 in winter.

average $$$$ a month for 2007 $203.00 a month with mu highest being 282.00 in July. Remember the over 100 degree days. This is with two adults and two teens. My highest in winter was $214.00 Thats as much as Natural Gas alone in the winter.

[echo8287]

I'll check with a Carrier dealer as well. The Bryant dealer around here I don't like. They throw the systems in, and are sloppy installers at that. I'd have to locate one of them a little further away.
Gohigh is your whole basement heated, with the same unit? Can you give me the specifics on your equipment? Air filtration as well.

My house is very well insulated,built as a passive solar. South side is the longest side(70ft) with bedrooms,living room on that side. 2 foot overhangs on the south wall. The south wall is 16 inches thick in the basement wall and 12 inches thick in the living room, and all bedroom, with stone on the wall. Laundry, kitchen, baths,on north side. It doesn't take too much heat to keep warm. The humidity in the summer is the killer as you well know. I need efficient A/C.Thanks for the replies and comments, David

[AcDOCnTRAINING]

Echo, thought I would throw my two cents worth in since I am in Ga. as well

Built a house a little over a year ago 2400sqft ranch on full basement. We had a heat pump installed going with the Carrier Infinity system. This is just like if not the same system as the Bryant Evolution. One word describes it AMAZING. Never did I think that paying top dollar for a system would pay off so fast. The thermostat control is only the start for a system that when zoned measures the static air pressure in the duct and adjust the variable speed of the blower for the demand that is needed. Combine that with a two speed outdoor unit which rubs on low most of the time and you have a very efficient unit.

Your the same place as me. Inside temps 75 summer (removes so much humidity anything less is to cool) 70 in winter.

average $$$$ a month for 2007 $203.00 a month with mu highest being 282.00 in July. Remember the over 100 degree days. This is with two adults and two teens. My highest in winter was $214.00 Thats as much as Natural Gas alone in the winter.

We get letters like this all the time from customers who have the EVO. unit, I've been in homes were the stat is at 80F & it feels so nice in there like 75F.
Echo try looking for a 5 star dealer, if you need any help finding one just give me a ha-ler

[gohigh]

Well I have the Carrier 5 ton Heat Pump. I have been actually trying to find out how it should have been sized as I am not sure if it was not over sized. We are looking into finishing another room and utilizing this system in it if it will take care of it. I think it will and more.

Our house is a ranch on a full basement that has not had any rooms finished.
The house faces east with 75' being east and 75' west. We also have 19 windows and two glass doors. The east and west sides both have a country porch which provide a lot of shade on some of those windows.

Me and my wife were the contractor so we made all the decision and made sure to pay a lot of attention to the HVAC and insulation. Having said that I did make them show me a sizing report at the time we selected the company.

The air handler is the FE4AND0060 with 4" pleated filter box. UV filter lights and a bypass humidifier. The entire system is all metal duct work insulated very well.

It's interesting though, when we were pricing the system the contractor was trying to steer me toward a zoning system. I declined based on budgeting because it would have added $4000.00 to the high price already. The duct work looks to actually be laid out in a four zone home-run scenario. The bottom of my floor looks like a commercial installation.

I will say we purchased this in June 2006 at that time it was 40% more than the next estimate. A lot of that was metal ducting vs flex hose I am sure.