Live vs neutral confusion

[CleterD]

I would neither trust the quality nor the current condition (no pun intended) of any installation enough to touch the neutral while the circuit is under load. If there is ANY resistance in ANY connection, you will become a path to ground.

As you just mentioned a few posts ago, this is an understanding thread, where descriptive examples fit well. No one is saying, here try this and see what happens.

[BBeerme]

Sometimes I don't have enough knowledge to ask the right question. Let me try a diff route.

"If the neutral wire carries current, why do many people believe that it's safe? I've heard "You can touch the neutral wire/bar in the breaker box and not get shocked. Only the hot can hurt you." If the circuit is complete and current is flowing, can't you receive a shock?"

Excuse me for chuckling, but that's almost humorous, you know, tech humor and all. You are correct. If everything was done and wired proper, it COULD be safe to touch the neutral bar. Let me tell you this, it is also safe to touch a hot wire in the voltages we are dealing with. And no harm will come to you. AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT GROUNDED.

The reason I got a bit of a chuckle out of your comment is due to the habits I've formed through the years. I treat anything electrical as a hot that is dangerous. Even the neutral bar in a panel. I even only pick up wire in my truck by the insulation; there could be a piece of scrap wire in my truck with copper showing and I won't touch it. It may sound odd to you, but it is just a reflex action not to grab it. Call it survival.

Now it's your turn to laugh at me . . .

[CleterD]

Excuse me for chuckling, but that's almost humorous, you know, tech humor and all. You are correct. If everything was done and wired proper, it COULD be safe to touch the neutral bar. Let me tell you this, it is also safe to touch a hot wire in the voltages we are dealing with. And no harm will come to you. AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT GROUNDED.

The reason I got a bit of a chuckle out of your comment is due to the habits I've formed through the years. I treat anything electrical as a hot that is dangerous. Even the neutral bar in a panel. I even only pick up wire in my truck by the insulation; there could be a piece of scrap wire in my truck with copper showing and I won't touch it. It may sound odd to you, but it is just a reflex action not to grab it. Call it survival.

Now it's your turn to laugh at me . . .

Amen to that! I'm on high alert even working with old existing earth driven ground rods. They can be very dangerous if you have a bad neutral.

[Core_d]

Sometimes I don't have enough knowledge to ask the right question. Let me try a diff route.

"If the neutral wire carries current, why do many people believe that it's safe? I've heard "You can touch the neutral wire/bar in the breaker box and not get shocked. Only the hot can hurt you." If the circuit is complete and current is flowing, can't you receive a shock?"

For that matter if your totally isolated a hot wire cannot hurt you either. Ever seen a bird sitting on a bear power line?

[Poodle Head Mikey]

Yes; you did - he is talking about "excess amps" not "excess volts". Furthermore; this video is about a very confusing subject matter and his descriptive method makes it worse I think. But besides all that; he is explaining a concept which means nothing to you and I doing HVAC/R-esque work. Let's back up to what I wrote before - in Post # 30.

PHM
--------

Check out the 4 min mark of this video. Maybe I just confused what this guy was saying.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sAg9VgMY8nU

[timebuilder]

Okay, I have a few minutes now. The topic of balanced vs unbalanced circuits (loads in the panel) is important when installing services. A 240 volt circuit such as an electric dryer is a balanced load. It is across the full length of that transformer secondary, and uses only the ungrounded conductors to carry the load current. An unbalanced load is the 120 volt circuit that uses one of the ungrounded conductors AND the neutral, which goes back to the center tap on the secondary.

The reason this is of interest to electricians is to determine the proper sizing of the conductors which go between the service drop and the service panel so you have a correctly sized neutral. If you have a great number of unbalanced loads, you have more current on that neutral conductor going back to the center tap. If all you had in your house was 240 volt electric dryers you would only need a neutral that was maybe a number 6 wire.

This is a much greater issue in commercisl occupancies. You can expect to see harmonic currents from lighting and electronics becoming bigger issues when sizing grounded conductors in the future.

This is not something that will help you unless you decide you want an electrical licence.

For now, you know how a neutral is different from its counterpart.

[corny]

For that matter if your totally isolated a hot wire cannot hurt you either. Ever seen a bird sitting on a bear power line?

There are power company guys who climb out onto those 100 kv... plus... transmission lines from a helicopter and do maintenance on them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tzga6qAaBA

[corny]

Id bet about every older home we work in has a neutral tied to a ground somewhere...... I see that crap with condensate pumps a lot and it just pisses me off to no end.

[timebuilder]

Id bet about every older home we work in has a neutral tied to a ground somewhere...... I see that crap with condensate pumps a lot and it just pisses me off to no end.

Grounds and neutrals tied together at appliances were VERY common until engineers started thinking about objectionable currents. Three wire dryer and stove plugs with jumper strips at the terminations come to mind.

[Core_d]

There are power company guys who climb out onto those 100 kv... plus... transmission lines from a helicopter and do maintenance on them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tzga6qAaBA

Ive watched that video quite a few times.

[ICanHas]

There are power company guys who climb out onto those 100 kv... plus... transmission lines from a helicopter and do maintenance on them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tzga6qAaBA

At that voltage level, "electric field" becomes a problem. They wear a metal mesh suit that looks like a beekeeper's suit, then attach jumper cable between the helicopter and the line they plan on working to equalize the charge.

[Poodle Head Mikey]

What you wrote here is correct: the hot wire will supply power during half the cycle and the neutral wire will supply power during half the cycle.

However knowing this is essentially meaningless. <g>

Why is the 'other' wire called a neutral? Instead of say; a 120 volt hot?

Because the wire called "neutral" has no potential voltage on it - it's has a "neutral" potential to ground. Hot wires Do have a potential voltage to ground - that is what makes them "hot".

BTW: Are you still listening?

PHM
------

My question is, if we are using AC current, then in the next half cycle, the live wire will return the current from the appliance and the neutral wire will bring current to appliances. Am I right? If I’m right, then both wires have the same function why give them different names? I need someone to break this down so I can understand it or point me in the right direction. I am advancing in my study but I never really grasped this concept. Really appreciate your help.

[Core_d]

At that voltage level, "electric field" becomes a problem. They wear a metal mesh suit that looks like a beekeeper's suit, then attach jumper cable between the helicopter and the line they plan on working to equalize the charge.

Yea, nearly similar to a CAT scan. Watched a show about schools buying up property near distribution lines due to cost, and the abnormally high cases of leukemia..

[Core_d]

What you wrote here is correct: the hot wire will supply power during half the cycle and the neutral wire will supply power during half the cycle.

However knowing this is essentially meaningless. <g>

Why is the 'other' wire called a neutral? Instead of say; a 120 volt hot?

Because the wire called "neutral" has no potential voltage on it - it's has a "neutral" potential to ground. Hot wires Do have a potential voltage to ground - that is what makes them "hot".

BTW: Are you still listening?

PHM
------

Before my morning drive this morning ide have agreed with you 100%. One thing that can electrically prove an difference between the line and neutral is an NCV. Much to my shame I admit I was wrong once again. It appears the neutral is in fact at zero potential or an NCV would cherp at any grounded object.

Atleast I called myself out

[zibby]

Think about as hot and neutral carry current, except neutral is connected to ground (for 120v only)

[captaincompressor]

I know if you put your tongue on a 7200v line it would hurt.
here is what I know about hvac. Don't put your tongue on line voltage; vacuum 410A for 15 minutes and charge it beer can cold .

[zibby]

Sometimes I don't have enough knowledge to ask the right question. Let me try a diff route.

"If the neutral wire carries current, why do many people believe that it's safe? I've heard "You can touch the neutral wire/bar in the breaker box and not get shocked. Only the hot can hurt you." If the circuit is complete and current is flowing, can't you receive a shock?"

Because it's connected to same ground as your body is. You can touch hot leg with your tong as long as you are isolated from ground. Just like birds siting on power line wires

[captaincompressor]

I want to pee on a transformer

[zibby]

Make sure you pee distilled water.

[captaincompressor]

I want to pee salt water on it lok