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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    7,977
    Quote Originally Posted by alexb View Post
    Did I mention that they installed *no* line dryer next to the outdoor unit,

    It probably has one already factory installed in the condensing unit.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    152
    renaissanse man thinks I need a new system? A 2006 American Standard? I can't mention price here, but this system has to last 18 years like the old 1988 Carrier did.

    Anyway, except for the refer. check and the capacitor check, I can do my own PM as far as cleaning & checking for damage etc etc..

    I paid for someone to come out back when i was on the Carrier, and he just checked the charge; no other PM; can't remember what I paid though; that was 2003 or so. I paid alot to have the system evacuated & recharged the year before the Carrier went belly-up. I thought this would give it a few more years, if there was particulates in there etc etc.. They didn't replace the filter/drier at that time though.

    Checking superheat & subcooling requires [more] time, and involves using special thermometers etc etc.. (I know I'm preaching to the choir...) -Measuring the temp at the evap - does that require removal of the AH cover, or can the measurement be made right where the refer lines enter/exit the unit? Do you have to be on one side or the other, of the TXV valve?

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,283
    What has yet to arise from this discussion is exactly why you suspect something is wrong with the refrigerant charge.

    Are you not staying comfortable during warm weather? Refrigerant charge is not always the prime culprit there. High energy bills? Same answer.

    A system can be properly charged (or at least have the amount of refrigerant it is supposed to have via the nameplate and adjustments for lineset length) and still not perform up to par due to ductwork design, leaky ducts, restrictive supply air registers, undersized returns, placement of supply registers within a room, etc. The house itself can also affect comfort and energy use...a house with leaky, single pane windows and sliding glass doors will be harder to keep comfortable than a house with thermal pane windows and doors.

    Going after the refrigerant charge as the very first thing can often be like placing the cart before the horse. If your system is not leaking, it does not need a charge unless it was under or overcharged in the beginning.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    152
    I suspect improper charge from the beginning. --Remember how I stated that the tech had the canister upside-down & tilted to one side & seemed startled when I came up behind him & asked him something..?

    My system is keeping me cool enough, but with ever-increasing energy prices, I'd like to have someone tell me to my face, "Sir, according to super-heat, and sub-cooling guidelines, your charge is a-OK..." I usually have the charge checked in the spring, as a matter of normal PM.

    Given the extra effort it takes to do a subC and superH calculations, would you do this if asked by the customer? Is this type of check part of a "PM" call, or are you required to charge extra for this type of examination?

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    5,351
    Quote Originally Posted by alexb View Post
    I suspect improper charge from the beginning. --Remember how I stated that the tech had the canister upside-down & tilted to one side & seemed startled when I came up behind him & asked him something..?

    My system is keeping me cool enough, but with ever-increasing energy prices, I'd like to have someone tell me to my face, "Sir, according to super-heat, and sub-cooling guidelines, your charge is a-OK..." I usually have the charge checked in the spring, as a matter of normal PM.

    Given the extra effort it takes to do a subC and superH calculations, would you do this if asked by the customer? Is this type of check part of a "PM" call, or are you required to charge extra for this type of examination?
    Checking superheat and subcooling is a part of every PM I do, unless its a PM on a gas furnace. As far as I'm concerned, if these aren't checked, then a PM wasn't done. However, I don't really see how what you saw translates to "the guy was a hack". There is nothing wrong with inverting the refrigerant cylinder, in fact you're supposed to do that with 410A unless it has a dip tube in it. However, it isn't a problem even if it was R-22 if the guy knew how to throttle it correctly. That he was surprised by you walking up is also no surprise to me. When I'm concentrating on something that I'm doing I'm easily startled too.

    In any case, it's a good idea to have it checked out before the season starts. But I'll tell you this, just because a tech measures superheat and subcooling, this doesn't mean that the system is going to be 100% because of it. There are a great number of things that can be out of whack that affect system performance.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,704
    I'd do it that way even if you don't ask.
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    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Valdosta Ga
    Posts
    847
    For best performace fill it up in cool spring weather so you can let it out in summer when its hot.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,704
    i thought it was fill it in the spring, and let it out in the fall.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Longview,TX.
    Posts
    83
    i thought it was fill it in the spring, and let it out in the fall.

    now I'm so confused

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    152
    If BzzLine is going to be 'funny' when I'm actually trying to be serious, then I guess this thread is closed. I'd posted frequently here in the past & had people respond to me appropriately. Until now. There's apparently no more I can learn here unfortunatly.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    2,875
    Quote Originally Posted by alexb View Post
    If BzzLine is going to be 'funny' when I'm actually trying to be serious, then I guess this thread is closed. I'd posted frequently here in the past & had people respond to me appropriately. Until now. There's apparently no more I can learn here unfortunatly.
    You have 122 posts and have never seen a few of us tell some jokes?? It's Friday night...I had a long azz week of doing PM's in the rain and I am drinking tonight....I thought it was funny. You have gotten alot of good info on here

    More for you think about....has anyone checked your airflow properly using a monometer and a blower chart?? 90% of all systems have improper air flow and until that issue is resolved....your refergerant charge will never be correct.
    I need a new signature.....

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Waffleville
    Posts
    10,339
    if its is checked by superheat, then fine. if it needs to be "charged" by superheat, then get the leak fixed and you won't have to worry with it for a while
    If Guns Kill People, Do Pencils Misspell Words?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An2a1...eature=related

    Before we work on artificial intelligence why don't we do something about natural stupidity?

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Elkton, MD
    Posts
    141
    1) A 13 SEER American Standard would utilize a TXV and would require the subcooling to be tested for system charging.
    2) This system has a factory installed drier and would not require an external drier.
    3) You do not need to check the charge at every preventive maintenance to perform it correctly. Why do you want to remove refrigerant every year when removing your 6' hoses? Take the time to verify and maintain airflow. The air conditioner is a sealed system and will not require refrigerant unless a leak is present.

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