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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    206

    Should tissue stick to return when air is running?

    If I hold a piece of tissue up to a return when the air/heat is running, it sticks to it -- gets sucked to the grill.

    One room it doesnt do this.

    This room doesn't seem to heat as well as the other rooms. What can be done to fix the return so it sucks more air.

    Note that I believe this return is a wall cavity where the grill is, not an actual return duct.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Add another return,increase the size of the existing path,seal the existing path of any leaks.


    Add a jumper return or thru the wall return path.Cut an inch or so off the bottom of the door.

    Test first,feel the supply air coming out of the duct with the door open,then have someone close it,if the quantity of supply air drops,you need more return,if not you need more supply to get the temperature inline with other rooms.

    Note, you could need more of both.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    206
    Quote Originally Posted by dash View Post
    Add another return,increase the size of the existing path,seal the existing path of any leaks.


    Add a jumper return or thru the wall return path.Cut an inch or so off the bottom of the door.

    Test first,feel the supply air coming out of the duct with the door open,then have someone close it,if the quantity of supply air drops,you need more return,if not you need more supply to get the temperature inline with other rooms.

    Note, you could need more of both.
    The quantity of air from the two supply vents in the drop ceiling remains the same whether the door is open or shut.

    Note that this is a sealed room with the door shut -- it is a theater room. The door is an exterior door with a threshold. So there is no gap at the bottom.

    So why doesn't the return cause tissue paper to stick? Is it due to being a wall cavity?

    Even if I need more supply (and I think I do) -- won't the air get stagnant/stale if there is not enough return (sucking out of air)?

    When the air comes on when in my master bedroom, the door gets sucked shut tighter. I get no such suction in this room.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Naples, Fl
    Posts
    889
    The air coming into the room is exiting somewhere or the supply air will fall off as the room pressurizes. Your door should not move in either direction when the a/c turns on. This is an airflow balancing issue.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    206
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianf View Post
    The air coming into the room is exiting somewhere or the supply air will fall off as the room pressurizes. Your door should not move in either direction when the a/c turns on. This is an airflow balancing issue.
    I dont' think the room ever really pressurizes.

    Its probably dribbling out through the drop ceiling. Or dribbling through that return.

    But that return doesn't suck very hard at all.

    No one has yet to answer my original question though. In general, should a tissue stick or not stick to a return grill when the air is on?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Naples, Fl
    Posts
    889

    Talking

    Quick and dirty answer is yes. Now the fine print. Is the return horizontal or vertical? What is the face velocity across the grill? Is the return air even across the grill (dead spots)? What tissue Northern or Charmin (restictive or free flowing)? What size tissue? The variables are multifold not to be confused with multi-ply.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    206
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianf View Post
    Quick and dirty answer is yes. Now the fine print. Is the return horizontal or vertical? What is the face velocity across the grill? Is the return air even across the grill (dead spots)? What tissue Northern or Charmin (restictive or free flowing)? What size tissue? The variables are multifold not to be confused with multi-ply.
    Single square of double ply Charmin -- but stuck to all other return grills.

    You can see the grill here as it looks in the finished room (left side of picture):



    And here's what it looks like behind the dry wall in that spot (ignore the red circle) -- you can see its a wall cavity feeding into something above it:




  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Naples, Fl
    Posts
    889
    Where romex penetrates studs should be sealed. What is the connection like at the top? Looks like surround speaker wires may be in same stud space also, sealed? Seams along panning material don't apprear to be sealed.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    206
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianf View Post
    Where romex penetrates studs should be sealed. What is the connection like at the top? Looks like surround speaker wires may be in same stud space also, sealed?
    The surround speaker wires were on the outside part of the right stud or on the right-side stud (didn't penetrate that cavity I believe). If they are inside the stud -- it would be like the romex -- not sealed. But I don't think they were.

    I'm not sure what is at the top -- must go into a return duct in the ceiling.

    So does this mean the wall should be opened up and the studs sealed around the romex (and the seams in that metal looking material sealed)?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Naples, Fl
    Posts
    889
    If that's the only return for the theater I suggest you find someone competent to help you. You have bigger fish to fry other than the romex openings.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    206
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianf View Post
    If that's the only return for the theater I suggest you find someone competent to help you. You have bigger fish to fry other than the romex openings.
    Well that's why I'm here -- it is the only return in that room. The HVAC company (Kenrich Mechanical) that built this is coming out next week to look at "re-balancing" the room.

    I want to know what I should be asking for; telling them; complaining about, looking for, mentioning, etc.

    What are the bigger problems than the romex openings? Should a 16 x 20 room (8' ceiling) have more than one return? Every similar sized room with a door in the house (the 3 smaller bedrooms) has just one return, about the same size.

    Only the huge master bedroom has multiple returns (and larger returns). The family room has a one single large return (wider) and the main part of the basement (outside the theater room) has a single, yet larger return (wider).

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Naples, Fl
    Posts
    889
    That wall chase by its' self isn't enough return for the room. Some form of heatload should be performed and then a duct system should be designed. And for various reasons the theater should be a dedicated zone at the minimum. This should be childs play for a "mechanical" contractor.

    If re-balancing doesn't involve some reference to required air flow and a before and after reading they will be just guessing. Trail and error may wear you down though.

    As a side note what type of processor do you have?
    Last edited by adrianf; 03-11-2008 at 03:09 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    206
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianf View Post
    That wall chase by its' self isn't enough return for the room. Some form of heatload should be performed and then a duct system should be designed. And for various reasons the theater should be a dedicated zone at the minimum. This should be childs play for a "mechanical" contractor.

    If re-balancing doesn't involve some reference to required air flow and a before and after reading they will be just guessing. Trail and error may wear you down though.

    As a side note what type of processor do you have?
    Do you mean projector? That's an Epson Pro Cinema 810.

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