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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Near Charlotte NC
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    51
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Your contractor can probaly do a savings estimate for you using the bin data for your area.
    Using the bin data, he can enter the COP for each temp range.
    The colder it is outside, the lower the COP. And of course the warmer outside, the higher the COP.

    Be gentle on him when you approach him with all these questions and suggestions.
    Beenthere, where can one obtain the COP data per temp range? If i had that I could probably do a decent estimate myself since I have access to MET data on an hourly basis where I work and can break it down into average segments per day for the past 4 or so months. It would be interesting to see what the comparison would show. In my area, electric bills change very infrequently. I'm buying my power from a coop and thier rates are higher than my company's. I've worked for a utility now for 24 years and we've had, I think, 2 rate increases during that time. Gas gets seasonal surcharges all the time around here though this year it has been minor. Thx again

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    6,285
    Quote Originally Posted by jdavis37 View Post
    Thx Beenthere.. funny, cause as I'm writing this my 12 year old is in the kitchen with a stool parked next to a register and enjoying the warm gas air blowing over him!

    And thx for the additional HP info.. I've been away from them for 16 years now and hated the one I had in my other home ( typical reasons, cold air coming form vents, strips kicking in fairly often and so on ). Is great to hear that things have changed!

    My dumb question is I'm assuming a HP alone would be cheaper than a AC + gas furnace option but then as I don't know what I'm talking about, I'll just ask.

    My electric rates here are quite reasonable ( about 9 cents per kwh.. wish I were buying power from my own company as it would be under 8 cents per kwh.. my shameless plug for nuclear power.. still cheap even with the overregulation and no greenhouse gases, and we release much LESS radiation ( in the form of inert noble gases ) to the environment than a similar sized coal plant ). Gas is $1.36 per ccf, or 1.33 per therm .

    Is certainly worth considering!
    Edit: Sorry to much reading....and me writing to fast.


    23º is our 99% heating dry bulb design temp around here.

    http://www.acca.org/contractors/_Con...ment%5B%5D=RES

    Call up some of these folks and pre screen for load and duct calcs. I know several who were willing to do it...well they would probably be willing to do it for you. The ones that were willing to do it straight up told me they weren't usually the lowest bid. But getting it done right for your own personal home is worth a lot more than quick savings. just my .02.
    Last edited by BigJon3475; 03-08-2008 at 02:37 PM.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Near Charlotte NC
    Posts
    51
    Quote Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
    Edit: Sorry to much reading....and me writing to fast.


    23Ί is our 99% heating dry bulb design temp around here.

    http://www.acca.org/contractors/_Con...ment%5B%5D=RES

    Call up some of these folks and pre screen for load and duct calcs. I know several who were willing to do it...well they would probably be willing to do it for you. The ones that were willing to do it straight up told me they weren't usually the lowest bid. But getting it done right for your own personal home is worth a lot more than quick savings. just my .02.
    Thanks BigJon.. the company coming on the 17th is on the lsit when supplying a 28078 zip as a starting point! I'l be sure to call a few others to see how the warm fuzzies go and what they recommend doing. This certainly is appreciated and hopefully it will turn something worthwhile up. I certainly am not seeking the lowest bid of all though that said am not seeking a $15K system either. We'll see how it goes and thx again!

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    6,285
    I'm sorry I didn't mean to imply that you were cheap or anything. You should be able to find someone good.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    6,285
    You'll probably need to speak to your contractor about COP as it's usually in product information and only a couple provide that information to the public. Don't take this as an endorsement of any product just showing you for reference since Goodman does post the information to the public.

    SSZ160241A* / CA*F3636*6A* + TXV / MBE1600**-1
    http://www.goodmanmfg.com/Portals/0/pdf/SS-SSZ16.pdf

    Page 12 provides COP information.

    Going by the 1.8 COP minimum which would equate to about -4ºF.

    @ our design temps it's closer to a 3 COP

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Near Charlotte NC
    Posts
    51
    Quote Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
    I'm sorry I didn't mean to imply that you were cheap or anything. You should be able to find someone good.
    Oh no no no! Sorry if it sounded that way. I certainly didn't take it as any implication on your part! I am cheap on some things but getting quality work done isn't one of them. Course, I also don't want to pay out the wazoo either lol But no, I've appreciated your information and never once did I take it that way!!

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Near Charlotte NC
    Posts
    51
    Quote Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
    You'll probably need to speak to your contractor about COP as it's usually in product information and only a couple provide that information to the public. Don't take this as an endorsement of any product just showing you for reference since Goodman does post the information to the public.

    SSZ160241A* / CA*F3636*6A* + TXV / MBE1600**-1
    http://www.goodmanmfg.com/Portals/0/pdf/SS-SSZ16.pdf

    Page 12 provides COP information.

    Going by the 1.8 COP minimum which would equate to about -4ºF.

    @ our design temps it's closer to a 3 COP
    Like many things, sometimes the companies that poeple tend to be the hardest on are also the ones which publish the true design spec iformation. If only they all would. Course, that said, one mihgt be abl eto reasonably infer that a Carrier Infinity, higher end Trane, etc probably wouldn't be too far off the Goodman numbers but then I may be simply naive on this logic train.

    It appears a good argument can be made for going with a heat pump assuming the contractor doesn't drastically alter the installation bid in a negative fashion to match. I really had not realized HP's had advanced this far! Thx again

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Near Charlotte NC
    Posts
    51
    Add on question ... if the ductwork were properly sized and designed with respect to the heat load, etc. of every room, and given the bonus room is a challenging room, if one were to run with a single zone system, could one get to a decent level of cooling in the summer ( and by decent I am ok with having 2-4 degrees difference between one end of the upstairs and the other.

    While I am strongly leaning toward a zoned system, I still would like to answer my commander-in-chief's questions ( ie spousal unit ) regarding the price difference between the 2 types of system.

    What we have now is truly BAD and needs to be replaced. However, her previous house ( larger than this home ) was composed of a heat pump for the 3rd floor and a zoned bottom end Lennox system for the bottom 2 floors ( Merit line of AC ), and her home was very comfortable year round.

    I have a vendor showing up on the 17th who will perform full heat load calcs and he has already told me he prefers to kjeep systems simple and beleives with well designed ductwork he can do that. I'm expecting his bid to be somewhat pricey even with the regular non zoned setup.

    Thx in advance. I've also located another vendor who claims to run full calcs using Wrightsoft, and they offer Bryant as well as Lennox systems, so we'll so what they come up with as well. Thx

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Second floor bonus rooms sometimes have misssing insulation in Kneewalls,or worse the floor truss system allows hot attic air to circulate below the floor of the bonus romm.

    I'd have the paople you have doing the testing check this out,we have found quite a few that homeowners suffered with for years..

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,778
    A single zone system ducted right can get you with in that temp range while it running.
    The problem is it will heat up and cool down at a quicker rate then the rest of the house on that system.

    Oriental also plays a big part in it.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Near Charlotte NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by dash View Post
    Second floor bonus rooms sometimes have misssing insulation in Kneewalls,or worse the floor truss system allows hot attic air to circulate below the floor of the bonus romm.

    I'd have the paople you have doing the testing check this out,we have found quite a few that homeowners suffered with for years..
    Thanks, Dash. I was planning to have additional attic insulation installed after the replacement if for no other reason than the house is 16 years old. It was blown to R30 in 1992 but appears to have settled a bit. It's so hard to get back over the bonus room that it wouldn't surprise me if there have been issues since day one. I have a large dormer in the room where I can see the insulation on the walls. That said, the 2 half doors are simple hollow doors without any insulation on thier back side. They are 24inches by 47 inches high. They at least have weather seals behind them.

    I'm very hopeful the existing ductwork testing will find some obvious problems. I really am not trying to keep it per se ( though if the problems are fixable and it was otherwise designed properly, I'd consider that ). But , it may lend itself to scaling back on the system upgrade if it seems the ductwork was most of the problem.

    I do love the idea of having a zoned system and it remains in the lead. Price wise I see it as a Lexus ( not quite Mercedes ) and currently we seem to be driving a Ford Pinto or AMC Gremlin of hVAC systems. The question will remian that once the ductwork/insulation issues are resolved, do we *need* the zoned system, or is it just something to consider if one wants a truly higher end, better balanced system. This is where it pays to be rich! And then these questions go away lol.

    Thanks for the insulation advice... is certainly worth having them look at and dtermine if there are things needing fixing there as well.

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Be sure you or they look at the bonus room floor,if you have floor trusses that are open to the attic.

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Near Charlotte NC
    Posts
    51
    Quote Originally Posted by dash View Post
    Be sure you or they look at the bonus room floor,if you have floor trusses that are open to the attic.
    Alas, the floor of the bonus room is completely inaccessible as the garage ceiling is fully sheetrocked, and the dormers that I can get into are subfloored. God only knows if they put *any* insulation in the floor ( if I had built the house in recent times I'd have tons of digital photos of every stage but alas 1992 was waaay pre digital ).

    Hopefully, one of these 2 companies will "wow" me a bit. The company that quoted the zoned system thus far is in the lead but he will need to tell me HOW he designs his ductwork. I'm still surprised his Carrier Infinity quote was so much less expensive than even his own comparable Trane system quote. Thx again!

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