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  1. #79
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Near Chicago, IL
    Posts
    3,317
    Quote Originally Posted by bob hubbard View Post
    This web site lets the home owner do a heat / cool load ( if he wants it ) and the companys selling the equipment matches the parts up to the ARI , so the customer knows what hes getting befor he orders . The one I did got all the rebates for the local gas & electric plus the federal . If we continue to lose a 50 % on every install alot of companys are goin to be laying off or going out of bussness & or working for less profit ! A mild summer will just put more pressure on everyone to lower their bids so we can all work for less ! Internet sales are not good for the hvac companys .
    As mentioned before, just back your equipment cost from a bid to install provided equipment. You are not "making money" on the cost of equipment, and the customer thinks they are "saving money", so what is the issue?

    If anything it is a better deal because you can legitimately offer a "tailight warranty". If there is a problem, it is a paid service call. If you want to be nice, offer one service call (diagnostic) for free. Customer pays retail for parts until you get a credit- then, give them the retail cost back.

    I don't know if you have noticed the trend over the last 20 years or so, but for people that have to "work" for a living, the hourly wages have not kept up with inflation.

    Many have been "working for less" for a long time.

    The "global economy" is driving US wages down for many, excluding executive and CEO positions. Companies lay off people and consolidate positions, adding responsibilities without adding compensation.

    The decline of the dollar is not helping, but it may bring some jobs back to the USA if it becomes cheap enough to do so. If it is becoming cost effective to bring back outsourced jobs, does that mean there is a pay hike?

    If you think it is "slow" now, just wait and see what happens if oil is traded in Euros instead of Dollars.

  2. #80
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    cincinnati ohio
    Posts
    2,024

    internet

    Quote Originally Posted by neophytes serendipity View Post
    As mentioned before, just back your equipment cost from a bid to install provided equipment. You are not "making money" on the cost of equipment, and the customer thinks they are "saving money", so what is the issue?

    If anything it is a better deal because you can legitimately offer a "tailight warranty". If there is a problem, it is a paid service call. If you want to be nice, offer one service call (diagnostic) for free. Customer pays retail for parts until you get a credit- then, give them the retail cost back.

    I don't know if you have noticed the trend over the last 20 years or so, but for people that have to "work" for a living, the hourly wages have not kept up with inflation.

    Many have been "working for less" for a long time.

    The "global economy" is driving US wages down for many, excluding executive and CEO positions. Companies lay off people and consolidate positions, adding responsibilities without adding compensation.

    The decline of the dollar is not helping, but it may bring some jobs back to the USA if it becomes cheap enough to do so. If it is becoming cost effective to bring back outsourced jobs, does that mean there is a pay hike?

    If you think it is "slow" now, just wait and see what happens if oil is traded in Euros instead of Dollars.
    How do you bid a job when the customer wants you to do it on an hourly rate ?
    My avatar is a picture of a Goodman Silencer .....These were commonly used in Goodman country ....Photos by hvac tech ( PaysonHVAC )

  3. #81
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Near Chicago, IL
    Posts
    3,317
    Quote Originally Posted by bob hubbard View Post
    How do you bid a job when the customer wants you to do it on an hourly rate ?
    Do the math and divide it by the number of hours you think it will take....

    Or, do it for your service rate.

    I know where this is going.

    Eventually, someone wants you to do skilled labor for (next to) nothing, right?

    That's because consumers have the perception that this field requires no skill. Until that changes, things will not get better. There are posts on this forum that prove there are unskilled and dishonest people in this field- which is no different from many other occupations.

    Part of that is because there is someone out there that will install a HVAC system for a low hourly rate if you won't.

    I don't know how to change that.

    The construction trades are the last frontier for "decent wage" traditional "blue collar" work that has not been outsourced. What do you think will happen to wages and rates as more people are attracted to a finite pool of jobs?

    Anyone that can swing a hammer is a carpenter...

    Anyone with a pipe wrench is a plumber....

    Anyone with a pipe bender is an electrician...

    Anyone with a set of gauges is an HVAC tech...

    Anyone with a pair of snips is a sheet metal mechanic.

    So, which trades require licensing?

  4. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by neophytes serendipity View Post
    As mentioned before, just back your equipment cost from a bid to install provided equipment. You are not "making money" on the cost of equipment, and the customer thinks they are "saving money", so what is the issue?
    <snip justification>
    Interesting. Without regard to arguments about cost of living increases or costs of doing business, which I might agree with, here is what it looks like you are saying. You lead your customer to believe that you are charging them a (labor) fee to install their equipment. Yet your instruction to "back out" the wholesale cost of the equipment from a full replacement bid price leaves you with the same profit on the equipment you would have made if you sold the equipment to the customer, rather than them providing it.

    So the reality is you are charging the customer labor, plus markup on equipment that you didn't sell them. Do I have that about right?

    By the way, I have no plans for an Internet order/install. I'm just curious about your practices.

    fletch

  5. #83
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    6,285
    One way to make internet obsolete. Don't worry about making money on the equipment bump your hourly wage up to compensate since people can google anything now to get an idea on what stuff cost and that way no one gets mad when someone makes money on ordering something (even if it is the American way and every other business in the US does it except nonprofit organizations)......the whole industry would have to do it but it would then lead itself into why would I buy online and get no warranty when I can buy from a dealer and get labor/parts warranty. Poof both sides happy......Prices stay practically the same so no one is losing money.....you take the wholesale internet providers off or out of the market.....Homeowner ends up going with licensed contractors more often lowering the amount of hackery.


    Just a different perspective.


    Or you could just have it as a policy we don't install stuff we don't sell.
    Last edited by BigJon3475; 03-10-2008 at 04:35 PM.

  6. #84
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    56
    There sure are a lot of anxious contractors here with extra time on their hands to argue against direct to consumer equipment sales.

  7. #85
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    68,759
    Aren't you the guy that hired a crack head, to save a buck.
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