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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Vancouver , Canada
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    300

    Hmm R-22 Refrigerant ' replacements '



    Mike and I are kicking around whether or not there is a good alternative refrigerant for R-22 in A/C service ??

    ICOR Nu22-B came up - is there any info you learned folk can pass on?

    Past use, oil change info, capacity loss / gain etc. would be appreciated - or is is a buch of ' snake oil ' ?? Perhaps this discussion has already gone around the bases ??

    Thanking you in advance - - - - -
    Superheat and subcooling tell it all !

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
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    7,763
    Last weeks HVAC News had a fairly good article and list of drop in 22 replacements.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    22
    Much the same as R12 there is no direct replacement only blended refrigerants. All the stuff I have read indicated the best replacement was a 50/50 mix of R-32/125, better known as R-410A.

    What I always found ironic about the phase out is in the end its because these refrigerants are said to deplete the ozone. Global warming accelerates the ozone depletion process, refrigerants have a GWP number as well, global warming potential. R-410A, the R-22 replacement has a higher GWP than R22 but R22 has a 0.034 ODP while R-410A is "approximately" zero. I guess I don't understand how one is better than the other. The largest global warming source, coal fired utilities, are unregulated when it comest to CO2.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    732

    Alternative refrigerant NU-22

    We recently had a very bad experience with NU-22 on a 100Ton Trane split system. The unit has 8 compressors and a few of them were being replaced; reason(s) for failure is unknown. The technician who replaced compressors and was charging the system was under the assumption the NU-22 refrigerant was a drop-in, so he was just adding refrigerant to clear the sightglass. That would be a mistake in any case, adding refrigerant without measuring superheat and subcooling. Anyway, the new compressors failed, locked-up, oil was washed out. To make a very long story short, more new compressors were installed, but R-22 was put back in the unit, and those compressors are still working. Is NU-22 or NU-22B a drop-in refrigerant? I don't think so. Is NU-22B an acceptable replacement? I don't know, but I am convinced that great care should be taken to get before and after measurements, particularly superheat. The PT chart for NU-22 and NU-22B suggests that the TXV would need to have spring pressure increased when the conversion is done.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Western Wa
    Posts
    1,837
    Has anyone had any experience with R-417a, another supposed R-22 drop-in?

    God Bless our Veterans

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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    48
    <*}(((-< Good work is not cheap!
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    SW MO.
    Posts
    5,212
    Quote Originally Posted by fxb80 View Post
    We recently had a very bad experience with NU-22 on a 100Ton Trane split system. The unit has 8 compressors and a few of them were being replaced; reason(s) for failure is unknown. The technician who replaced compressors and was charging the system was under the assumption the NU-22 refrigerant was a drop-in, so he was just adding refrigerant to clear the sightglass. That would be a mistake in any case, adding refrigerant without measuring superheat and subcooling. Anyway, the new compressors failed, locked-up, oil was washed out. To make a very long story short, more new compressors were installed, but R-22 was put back in the unit, and those compressors are still working. Is NU-22 or NU-22B a drop-in refrigerant? I don't think so. Is NU-22B an acceptable replacement? I don't know, but I am convinced that great care should be taken to get before and after measurements, particularly superheat. The PT chart for NU-22 and NU-22B suggests that the TXV would need to have spring pressure increased when the conversion is done.
    Sounds more like installer error.
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    100

    Hmm R-22 replacement

    York is using 407c in their scrowl packeges and it works fine, you had better read up on 410a because of it very high pressures you will need to upgrade copper and refrigerant gauges and hoses!!!! and you will need to get certified to purchase it.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Posts
    3,112
    mathais, where did you see you need to get certified to purchase 410A? Also, where do I purchase 410A grade copper?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Western Wa
    Posts
    1,837
    I used to shoot a .410.

    Copper wouldn't hold those pressures, either.
    God Bless our Veterans

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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    ga.
    Posts
    85
    Now That Is Funny.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Waffleville
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    10,339
    Quote Originally Posted by fishnfool View Post
    this looks great IMO you think any of these "drop ins" will be warranted by manu's? whats the chances that the prices on all this stuff are going to soar in the next few years. i think we all learn a lesson when r12 got the boot
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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
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    7,763
    [QUOTE= i think we all learn a lesson when r12 got the boot[/QUOTE]

    I'm just wondering what everone elses lessons were when r12 went out. Mine was a little stress for the first 1.5 years or so then I played around with two of the drop in replacements and settled on Hot Shot.

    I even had a guy try to sell me a new jug of R12 and turned him down cause Hot Shot has so far taken care of all the R12 needs I've had.

    Point is, for me, the R12 thing became a non-thing very quickly once I found a suitable replacement.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

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