Since all quotes are from the same company I would choose the Bryant unit.
My personal/professional estimation is the Bryant is better quality equipment and with the 2.5 ECM and the Evolution control superior comfort.
I just got a quote to replace my heat pump system. I'm happy with the sales person; he did a manual load calculation and came up with around 44,0000 BTU/H (builder put in a 3.5 ton). He measured lineset, ductwork, etc. as well. Question: can a 7/8" suction line be used with a 4 ton unit? It's going to have to be used... He wants to put in a 4 ton regardless of whether we go with a dual stage or not (our home sq. footage is about 3500 he said) and we have over 30 registers. I was quoted 3 systems, the Bryant Evolution 16, the Trane XL15i, and the Trane XL16i. The prices are very, very comparable and all systems have a rebate. The Trane units would go with a 4TEE3F40 air handler (we can't really fit a *49 air handler in the basement). However, I just realized that the 4 ton XL15i and the 4TEE3F40 isn't an ARI-rated match, so I won't choose this option (unless he planned on fitting the *49 for this setup somehow). He talked about wiring issues with the Trane dual stage system; a new wire would have to be run. He wasn't pushy in either direction, which I like.
The quote includes:
-Bryant 4 Ton Evolution 16, Trane XL15i, or Trane 4 Ton XL16i
-Bryant FE4 air handler or Trane 4TEE air handler
-Evolution control or Trane TCONT803
-flushed lineset (new one would be very difficult)
-new pad, 3" pumps, disconnect, wiring, sheetmetal, etc.
-moved return
-10 years parts/2 years labor warranty (extended available for extra)
Options (I think I'll go with both):
-F100 media air cleaner
-AprilAire (if we went with Evolution it would be Bryant's made by AprilAire) large bypass whole-house humidifier
So, any thoughts on which system to go with (XL16i or Evolution 16)? The ARI figures aren't terrible for both except for heating on the Trane of course (not even 3.5 tons with the *40 air handler - just over 3.5 tons with the *49 air handler).
Thank you!
Since all quotes are from the same company I would choose the Bryant unit.
My personal/professional estimation is the Bryant is better quality equipment and with the 2.5 ECM and the Evolution control superior comfort.
Since he wants to over size it.
The Bryant with Evolution control.
Any issues with using the original lineset which had a 7/8" suction line? Thanks.
I would replace all that is accessible especially horizontal sections. Other than that as long as they flow Nitrogen when brazing the copper purge with Nitrogen triple evacuate to three hundred micron and install a proper liquid line drier. These procedures shold be followed even if they replaced the refrigerant copper.
What if you got there and he says Im ryan hughes .Would you leave?
post a picture on here and he has his red marker out ready to point out any flaw
Ryan
With the increase from a 3.5 ton to a 4 ton unit, has dealer examined your ductwork system(both supply and return) to verify that it can handle the extra CFMs?
You need to verify that your lineset is sized correctly for a 4 ton. Can't help you here.
I personally would recommend that the lineset be changed out-both from the size issue and the new type refrigerant.
I like Trane HPs better but depending on system configuration, they can be light in BTUs both in cooling and heating. If price is not an issue, then go with the Bryant Evolution system. The Evolution controller seals the deal.
IMO
Good Luck!
Ryan the line size is fine, the 049 is 5-1/2 taller. I would go with the 4TWX5048 if he can fit the 049.
The ductwork was looked at and he determined it can handle a 4-ton unit (1 reverse L branch 16x8 and 1 rectangular branch 20x8 off the supply plenum - hope I got those numbers right).
I looked at the data for the units and the 7/8" suction is what is listed. I'd like to change the lineset but it's in a finished basement and would require holes. I'm still considering it, but he said he's had no issues with flushing the lineset with RX-11 and pulling a vacuum. I asked them if they used nitrogen when brazing and was happy to hear that they did.
As far as the costs go, the XL15i, XL16i, and Evolution 16 are all very close to each other due to rebates.
I'd like to confirm that the *49 will fit, because if I go with Trane I can't see putting either unit on the *40.
Any reason why you recommend the XL15i second opinion? Is the dual stage in MD not worth it? At this point I was only considering the dual stage units. Don't know the electric rate but I know the electric bills are very high.
Thanks for the help.
Just did some quick measuring. The Lennox right now is roughly the height of the Trane 4TEE3F40. To go with the 4TEE3F49, that would be, as second opinion said, an extra 5-1/2 inches or so. Right now I have a 19" high return base plenum. The *49 would put me at around 12-13". What do you guys think? 3 returns... Too small return plenum? Going up isn't really an option; the supply plenum is already a bit small. I'll post some pictures.
Return Plenum:
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...p/IMG_0276.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...p/IMG_0275.jpg
Supply Plenum (around 19" high and branches off at around 10.5" high):
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...p/IMG_0278.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...p/IMG_0277.jpg
Bonus (boxer puppy ):
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...p/IMG_0260.jpg
Sounds like you have a really good company I would use the the bryant
I think I'm leaning toward the Bryant. The difference between the XL15i and the Evolution 16 is very minimal (relatively speaking) that it almost seems like a no-brainer.
While I did get the cooling load at around a 4-ton unit, I didn't get a heat loss figure. The unit should be sized according to the cooling needs though, right? I guess the heat strips will take care of the rest. The XL16i provides 43k BTU/H of heat. The 3.5 ton (mismatched so who knows the capacity) now has been able to keep up with heating for milder weather but runs near constantly when it gets below 30 or so. I'm still torn between the Trane and the Bryant. I will request the VP IAQ with the Trane setup if I go that route. Also, I won't get the *40 AHU with the XL16i; if I can't get the *49 to fit I will not get the Trane.
Does anyone have any input? I appreciate the advice given to me up to this point and am getting closer to calling the gentleman back so he can come back to do some final planning and get the contract signed. I can tell you I'm leaning toward the Trane now. My reasons being: scroll compressor (no stopping to stage up), demand defrost (does the Bryant have this?), durability/reliability of Trane, Vortica blower, and Comfort-R. I'm sure the Bryant can match or even beat a lot of these features, though. Looking for any and all opinions since this is a big decision for me. I've made mistakes in the past with my HVAC system, have learned, and definitely DO NOT want repeats.
Remember the cooling load was around 44k BTU if that helps with the advice. I will not be changing my lineset due to accessibility, the fact that many seem to think it's unnecessary and can just be flushed, and the fact that the comfort specialist told me he has had no problems with reusing linesets for R-410a.
I think in the end it may just come down to whether or not I can fit that big 4TEE3F49 air handler in the basement. I've done some measuring and it looks like it will be a very, very tight fit.
Go with the Bryant, bigger difference between the stages, longer run times, better humidity control in the summer. Plus of course the Evolution control, you will know your static by just looking at the control
The Bryant has two compressor options one is the Copeland Scroll same as the Trane and the other is the Bristol. The Bristol is a two speed unit 1st. stage is 50% the Scroll is two stage and 1st. stage is 67%. The Copeland is the vastly superior compressor so that is a wash between the two options.
The Vortica blower housing is not that big an advantage but the Evolution control is vastly superior to anything Trane currently has.
I have sold both systems and was a Trane Comfort Specialist I now prefer Bryant and quality of product and superior technology are the reason why.
I evaluate continually what to offer my customers because my reputation is on the line.
The Bristol TS is NOT a 2 speed compressor.
It runs in one direction for first stage, and in the opposite direction for second stage.
I'm not sure if the Copeland is really 67% or has a net of around 80% as I've heard. Single stage is still an option, but I'm looking to get a nicer unit. The contract is good for 30 days from the 28th of Feb. so I have plenty of time to think about this decision.