New System Quote
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    DC Metro Area (MD)
    Posts
    3,367

    New System Quote

    I just got a quote to replace my heat pump system. I'm happy with the sales person; he did a manual load calculation and came up with around 44,0000 BTU/H (builder put in a 3.5 ton). He measured lineset, ductwork, etc. as well. Question: can a 7/8" suction line be used with a 4 ton unit? It's going to have to be used... He wants to put in a 4 ton regardless of whether we go with a dual stage or not (our home sq. footage is about 3500 he said) and we have over 30 registers. I was quoted 3 systems, the Bryant Evolution 16, the Trane XL15i, and the Trane XL16i. The prices are very, very comparable and all systems have a rebate. The Trane units would go with a 4TEE3F40 air handler (we can't really fit a *49 air handler in the basement). However, I just realized that the 4 ton XL15i and the 4TEE3F40 isn't an ARI-rated match, so I won't choose this option (unless he planned on fitting the *49 for this setup somehow). He talked about wiring issues with the Trane dual stage system; a new wire would have to be run. He wasn't pushy in either direction, which I like.

    The quote includes:

    -Bryant 4 Ton Evolution 16, Trane XL15i, or Trane 4 Ton XL16i
    -Bryant FE4 air handler or Trane 4TEE air handler
    -Evolution control or Trane TCONT803
    -flushed lineset (new one would be very difficult)
    -new pad, 3" pumps, disconnect, wiring, sheetmetal, etc.
    -moved return
    -10 years parts/2 years labor warranty (extended available for extra)

    Options (I think I'll go with both):

    -F100 media air cleaner
    -AprilAire (if we went with Evolution it would be Bryant's made by AprilAire) large bypass whole-house humidifier

    So, any thoughts on which system to go with (XL16i or Evolution 16)? The ARI figures aren't terrible for both except for heating on the Trane of course (not even 3.5 tons with the *40 air handler - just over 3.5 tons with the *49 air handler).

    Thank you!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    6,315
    Since all quotes are from the same company I would choose the Bryant unit.

    My personal/professional estimation is the Bryant is better quality equipment and with the 2.5 ECM and the Evolution control superior comfort.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Quote Originally Posted by classical View Post
    Since all quotes are from the same company I would choose the Bryant unit.

    My personal/professional estimation is the Bryant is better quality equipment and with the 2.5 ECM and the Evolution control superior comfort.
    Might have the 3.0 version by now.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,631
    Since he wants to over size it.
    The Bryant with Evolution control.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    DC Metro Area (MD)
    Posts
    3,367
    Any issues with using the original lineset which had a 7/8" suction line? Thanks.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    6,315
    I would replace all that is accessible especially horizontal sections. Other than that as long as they flow Nitrogen when brazing the copper purge with Nitrogen triple evacuate to three hundred micron and install a proper liquid line drier. These procedures shold be followed even if they replaced the refrigerant copper.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tn.
    Posts
    1,344
    What if you got there and he says Im ryan hughes .Would you leave?

    post a picture on here and he has his red marker out ready to point out any flaw

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Quote Originally Posted by m-cooling View Post
    What if you got there and he says Im ryan hughes .Would you leave?

    post a picture on here and he has his red marker out ready to point out any flaw
    Interesting.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    The South
    Posts
    2,128
    Ryan

    With the increase from a 3.5 ton to a 4 ton unit, has dealer examined your ductwork system(both supply and return) to verify that it can handle the extra CFMs?

    You need to verify that your lineset is sized correctly for a 4 ton. Can't help you here.

    I personally would recommend that the lineset be changed out-both from the size issue and the new type refrigerant.

    I like Trane HPs better but depending on system configuration, they can be light in BTUs both in cooling and heating. If price is not an issue, then go with the Bryant Evolution system. The Evolution controller seals the deal.

    IMO
    Good Luck!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern VA 38 degrees N by 76 degrees W
    Posts
    5,058
    Ryan the line size is fine, the 049 is 5-1/2 taller. I would go with the 4TWX5048 if he can fit the 049.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    DC Metro Area (MD)
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    3,367
    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdunes View Post
    Ryan

    With the increase from a 3.5 ton to a 4 ton unit, has dealer examined your ductwork system(both supply and return) to verify that it can handle the extra CFMs?

    You need to verify that your lineset is sized correctly for a 4 ton. Can't help you here.

    I personally would recommend that the lineset be changed out-both from the size issue and the new type refrigerant.

    I like Trane HPs better but depending on system configuration, they can be light in BTUs both in cooling and heating. If price is not an issue, then go with the Bryant Evolution system. The Evolution controller seals the deal.

    IMO
    Good Luck!
    The ductwork was looked at and he determined it can handle a 4-ton unit (1 reverse L branch 16x8 and 1 rectangular branch 20x8 off the supply plenum - hope I got those numbers right).

    I looked at the data for the units and the 7/8" suction is what is listed. I'd like to change the lineset but it's in a finished basement and would require holes. I'm still considering it, but he said he's had no issues with flushing the lineset with RX-11 and pulling a vacuum. I asked them if they used nitrogen when brazing and was happy to hear that they did.

    As far as the costs go, the XL15i, XL16i, and Evolution 16 are all very close to each other due to rebates.

    I'd like to confirm that the *49 will fit, because if I go with Trane I can't see putting either unit on the *40.

    Any reason why you recommend the XL15i second opinion? Is the dual stage in MD not worth it? At this point I was only considering the dual stage units. Don't know the electric rate but I know the electric bills are very high.

    Thanks for the help.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    DC Metro Area (MD)
    Posts
    3,367
    Just did some quick measuring. The Lennox right now is roughly the height of the Trane 4TEE3F40. To go with the 4TEE3F49, that would be, as second opinion said, an extra 5-1/2 inches or so. Right now I have a 19" high return base plenum. The *49 would put me at around 12-13". What do you guys think? 3 returns... Too small return plenum? Going up isn't really an option; the supply plenum is already a bit small. I'll post some pictures.

    Return Plenum:
    http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...p/IMG_0276.jpg
    http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...p/IMG_0275.jpg

    Supply Plenum (around 19" high and branches off at around 10.5" high):
    http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...p/IMG_0278.jpg
    http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...p/IMG_0277.jpg

    Bonus (boxer puppy ):
    http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...p/IMG_0260.jpg

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    south carolina
    Posts
    175
    Sounds like you have a really good company I would use the the bryant

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