This would get better response from the controls forum.
I am working with a sustainability consultant on a single family residence. Among many green features, the project includes Solar Thermal collectors and automated window shading. I am designing an integrated dashboard for monitoring and controling all the energy, comfort, security and lighting systems. I believe that the iLON Smart Server will be able to provide the integrations, controls and communications needed.
Relative to HVAC we want to use off the shelf residential equipment as much as possible - such as the Lennox XP19-48 combined with a Lennox air handler and a Lennox Harmony III four zone controller. But I need to integrate the Solar Thermal heat. Does any one have experience or ideas for how to get states and settings data from the Lennox equipment to the iLON Smart Server? Or are there other choices of equipment that are LON Mark compatible?
I would appreciate any suggestions.
This would get better response from the controls forum.
Why not use a solar boosted geothermal heat pump? Might simplify some things.
I also posted my questions it in the Controls forum. But I was hoping that interest in smart home technology along with the environmental and exonomic benefits would have generated more installation experience in the residential market, and I was hoping to tap into that. Is anyone finding a demand for smart homes?
I just want to say I am glad Mkirrene is asking these questions. I am a homeowner in S.Texas who is interested in better measuring and controls. If there were anything well developed I myself would want to window shop these systems. The way energy prices tend to go up and electronics prices tend to go down, sooner or later this will be of interest to a lot of people.
Best of luck -- Pstu
I'm not sure how you might integrate those systems but would think a simpler use would be for domestic hot water. That is a pretty simple setup, solar boiler connected to a electric water tank [not powered] that preheats the water going into whatever water heating system you have.
HVAC professionals do not seem to understand the value of integrated controls. But the howeowner does. He makes a significant investment in energy and resourcs conserving systems, and he needs an easy way to see how it all is working. As the cost of energy goes up, and utilities apply more sophisticated pricing, such controls will become mandatory - not just nice.
My background is in information technology. After doing some research I find that all of the necessary technology is available to integrate all home management and control requirements, but this technology is only being used in large commercial systems - not residential. It seems that the Controls forum is not interested in residential and the Residential HVAC forum is not interested in controls. We need to change that.
You might ask this question in 'heatinghelp.com' or 'healthyheating.com'. Should be some resi control dudes there. Good luck, I will be watching.
That may be true but sometimes the simple ways just work better. I'm not saying what you are thinking about is not a good idea because I have not seen exactly what you are thinking about. I do know that your domestic hot water heating is a significant part of your annual energy use and doesn't change with the seasons. If, as I think you described you were looking to tie into your heating system only, what would you do with that solar energy in the summer?
http://www.lennoxcommercial.com/support/
Sign-in and
then access Lennox controls technical documents.
How does automatic window shading help with heating?
Location ___ ?
Designer Dan __ It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with Some Art. _ _ KEEP IT SIMPLE & SINCERE ___ __ www.mysimplifiedhvac.com ___ __ Define the Building Envelope & Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows & Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities
Also check with: taco, tekmar, hbx - all control systems for hvac.
Here's an individual who's making a start at what you're talking about, aimed at the residential market: http://www.welserver.com
Here are 16 homes that have implemented something along the lines of an integrated "way to see how it is all working:" http://welserver.com/ww
And here's my example for a Dallas climate: http://welserver.com/WEL0043 .
Hope this helps.
Best regards,
Bill
I don't believe complete automation for a residential application will be coming too soon due to the price point of the controllers. I was in commercial automation for many years and for the cost to do a home you could pay for heat a cooling for at least 10 years not to mention the problems with quirks, comm problems, and sensor and actuator reliability. It's different if you have 100+ zones, multiple chillers and boilers to oversee. I did a 30,000 sq ft residence and it worked ok but for the average homeowner that can hardly use a setback t-stat or VCR timer it does not seem viable. There are some "smart home" controllers that may work better. Any of the commercial line of controllers could be made to work but that requires custom programming and front end design. Good luck with you project and if it works out post back to let us know how it is working. If the home owner wants energy efficiency I would start with the building envelope.
http://www.smarthome.com/_/index.aspx
Solar panals are too expensive costly to maintain they went out just after the coal furnace's Heat pumps with motor inverter tecnolgy are the next generation.After five years this may change also.
In this particular case, the owner wants to collect solar heat for both space and domestic hot water. To further complicate things, during the summer he also wants to radiate heat out through the solar heat collector at night and store cooled water for cooling the house during the day.
You are right - simple is best and these plans may not be practical. But, I suspect that the early air handlers, thermostats and heat pump systems were also challenging.
The use of solar is great if everyone would used them I am sure it would eliminate alot of greenhouse gasses.
The problem is a trouble free design. All the Solar units I have seen were diconnected. The problm lack of parts or what I donot know.
Bill,
This little welserver tool produces impressive results. Your home in Dallas is FULLY instrumented. What did you use to control all the valves, pumps, etc. There are quite a few.
The challenge I am facing is to not only monitor, but to also control (automated and manual) in a way that is simple to use for an "ordinary" homeowner. Thus the idea for a dashboard type display where all the measures and controls are in one display. Did you use independent thermostats?
Years ago I heard there was a dentist office in Fla that had a flat roof with standing water that was used to cool the office during the Day.
Here we have a golf course main building uses geothermo cooling from a large arreated pond.
mkirrene, my GSHP installation is 8 tons for 3400 SF in a Dallas climate. The air-side equip is exclusively WaterFurnace or WF supplied (2 Envision units w/ 5 & 3 ton 2-speed compressors & variable-speed blowers, IntelliZone air zone distribution panel, and Belimo damper motors). The hydraulics portion of the system is 8 vertical wells ea 300' deep, with HDPE pipe, Grundfos pumps, Spirotop vents, Watts check valves, a Honeywell 2-way valve, and a Grasslin Time Switch. I do not have any 'flow centers.'
The system design / equip installation was exclusively done by an authorized WF installer, with no later modification by me. What you see on my charts is a summary of how the system is performing as designed and installed.
Control of valves, pumps, etc. is done by the WF or WF supplied equip noted above. The tstats are WF private-labeled White Rodgers 90 Series Blue Universal, Model 1F95-1271. I have one tstat per zone (4 total).
Images of the installation are located here: http://www.pbase.com/neukranz/gshpinstall . A pretty thorough discussion of details of the system was done last year in the Wall of Pride forum here: http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthr...light=a0128958 .
My home has automation control and integration of lighting, room occupancy sensing, security, fire, and pool pumps/chemistry using various dedicated processors. Before replacing my HVAC system (including ducts) last year, I also had HVAC control integrated in too. I used AprilAire 8870 Communicating Tstats that have a computer control input / data output port, allowing for automated HVAC control (temp, mode, fan, etc.) based on room occupancy, time of day, outside / attic temp, etc, and allowing for a lot of data collection capability. These tstats are commonly used in AMX and Crestron installations.
Since WF would not do an installation with anything other than WF sourced equipment, I now use the WF supplied tstats. And thus I no longer have HVAC control integrated in to my home automation system. This was an 'up or down' item that I was not able to reach agreement on with WF.
I'm an advocate of residential HVAC control via tstats only, and thus I don't have any 'home-brew' or 'off-the-shelf' control implementation for valves, pumps, etc (and for reasons of maintaining warranty status). Tstats have various safety features that are in place for a reason - 'downstream' mods to hook in various control to residential HVAC related parts, in my opinion, is contrary to good safety philosphy.
I hope this helps.
Best regards,
Bill
There are newer solar collection systems out there to handle what you want to do mechanically. The kit can be bought with collectors and dual coil storage tanks to allow a backup source if necessary, such as a boiler. As far as controls there are many out there depending on price point and level of detail required. There is a relatively inexpensive controls supplier who use more or less spreadsheets for data, and simple canned programs. They do not use any fancy graphics. There are others who go from here to eternity depending on budget. gotta know where to look.