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  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post

    But I wish we would have just stayed at home let Iraq have Kuwait and we would have our WTC.
    Totally disagree. Muslim extremists have always hated the US and its policies. An attack was a forgone conclusion.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

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  2. #15
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    Why Are We In Iraq

    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    Totally disagree. Muslim extremists have always hated the US and its policies. An attack was a forgone conclusion.
    And in your opinion, why is that so...??
    People dont hate without a reason.


    Roy
    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

  4. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by royc View Post
    And in your opinion, why is that so...??
    People dont hate without a reason.


    Roy
    Get a copy of the Quran. Answer to your question is found within.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    Get a copy of the Quran. Answer to your question is found within.
    Sorry, thats not the reason as much as you would like to claim it is. People dont hate each other for their religions. Its just a convinient scapegoat for leaders with alterior motives, usually power or money, or both.


    Roy
    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by royc View Post
    And in your opinion, why is that so...??
    People dont hate without a reason.


    Roy
    Many reasons why the "Radical Islamic" groups hate the US.

    1- We do not control our women. We allow them to go to school and participate on an equal level in our daily lives (politics, law ennforcement, medical, etc.) instead of keeping them on a leash.

    2- We flaunt our wealth and success. Who is the first Country that people ask for help from after a natural disaster?

    3- We have the perfect poster children for out of control (Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, etc.) and do nothing to them for their disgusting behavior exept give them more and more media time.

    4- We are not of the same Religion. Not just Muslim, if you look at the number of different Religions in the US you will see that there is a very large number of Religious beliefs within single States let alone the entire country. How can a single Country or its people be good if they cannot agree on one (or two) Religion to follow. (I am not counting Christianity as a singular religion due to the different septs/branches)

    The list goes on, but those are a few that should shed light on the reasons we are evil and need to die.
    I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter.

    I will defend, to your death, my right to my opinion.

  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvactech13 View Post
    Many reasons why the "Radical Islamic" groups hate the US.

    1- We do not control our women. We allow them to go to school and participate on an equal level in our daily lives (politics, law ennforcement, medical, etc.) instead of keeping them on a leash.

    2- We flaunt our wealth and success. Who is the first Country that people ask for help from after a natural disaster?

    3- We have the perfect poster children for out of control (Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, etc.) and do nothing to them for their disgusting behavior exept give them more and more media time.

    4- We are not of the same Religion. Not just Muslim, if you look at the number of different Religions in the US you will see that there is a very large number of Religious beliefs within single States let alone the entire country. How can a single Country or its people be good if they cannot agree on one (or two) Religion to follow. (I am not counting Christianity as a singular religion due to the different septs/branches)

    The list goes on, but those are a few that should shed light on the reasons we are evil and need to die.
    Here read this, there you will find the good, bad and the ugly on all sides.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0927/p1s1-wogi.html

    Roy
    Last edited by royc; 02-22-2008 at 05:59 PM.
    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

  8. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by royc View Post
    Here read this, there you will find the good, bad and the ugly on all sides.

    Roy
    I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter.

    I will defend, to your death, my right to my opinion.

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by classical View Post
    Air311 has not stepped up to the plate so I suspect he is code pink wimp but since this thread has been started I will as promised present a history lesson for him. I will attempt to be succinct but with as broad a subject and spanning the two wars he has. Some length and substance will be necessary. I also strongly suspect he will never see or respond.

    First the war in Vietnam; originally we entered this conflict in the early fifties in order to support and mitigate the losses suffered by the French. The reason we stayed and eventually escalated the war was to stem the tide of rapidly escalating communist expansion and aggression. Uncle Ho Chi Minh was schooled and indoctrinated by the communist regime of Mao Se Tung a massively corrupt and violent leader that slaughtered over 100 million of his own people even more than Uncle Josef Stalin in Russia.

    Uncle HO with the backing of China and Russia started a revolution to conquer the Southern state of Vietnam. Their purpose was to eliminate any educated individuals in order to have a subservient and compliant people to exploit in order to further militarily expand the tentacles of communism through out the region. Eventually they wished to surround and strangle all of Micronesia as well as the lower Asian continent (being India, Afghanistan and up into Iran and on into the Middle East. If you will look at a world map you will see where Vietnam provides the key to the oil rich lands for the communist. By dominating this area of the Pacific they don’t have to come over the Himalayas to reach the Oil territories of Iran and up into the cradle of civilization. Russia (the USSR) had a path through the Balkans and the Caspian Sea.

    For the Chinese Vietnam was the key to unlocking untold natural resources as well a fodder for their armies on the way to world domination. China as we see toady needed/needs natural resources to grow. Countries like Siam, Cambodia, Laos and the rest of Indonesia and Micronesia had oil Bauxite and rubber all resources needed to expand an economy and grow a nation. Getting control of this area provides control of the seas which means strangling oil to the United States as well as Isolating Australia. It eventually gets them in control of the Suez Canal and the Straits of Hormuz.

    We lost that conflict because Democrats were in charge of the early war expansion and did not allow in the field commanders to prosecute the war to our military forces capabilities. Does this sound familiar, William Christopher have a hand in that fiasco as well as the Mogadishu/Somalia debacle?


    Due to a civilian populace back home that could no see beyond the evening news and what a bunch communist indoctrinated college professor fed the students avoiding military service and a few dishonest future politicians (John Kerry) and duped celebrities (Jane Fonda) we ran from the war without fully accomplishing our mission but still having succeeded in distracting China enough and causing a rift with North Vietnam to stem the tide of Communist expansion. However they did manage to move into Cambodia and slaughter the majority of the population and reduce their educational level back to the Stone Age.

    Now lets move on to the current Middle East situation do not take the happenings there at face value look deeper and historically to understand. Yes oil is a major concern and that is our major reason for having an interest in the region. Protecting our supply of oil as well as the supplies for the remainder of the industrial and emerging industrial world is paramount if we wish to have a future and be a prosperous nation.

    We are also there to stem the growth of the new communism the radical Islamic state. It is a state in that they wish to incorporate the world into one Islamic world and the Middle East and Persia/Iran is the primary instigator and funding agent behind this. Remember Persia/Iran is the original Aryan state they are not Arabs; they hold the Arabs in disdain. They consider them a means to an end fodder for the great crusade to come. They are on the Strait of Hormuz and ultimately that is what they must and most vehemently wish to control. If they do they control the world literally. Here again we have the need to control natural resources as the primary impetus to military violence.

    Whatever justification Bush had to accept or invent if you wish to place troops in this area was necessary. Saddam Hussein was covenant pawn to provide a reason to place those troops there. In order to have troops in the area which we desperately needed we had to have a seemingly plausible justifiable reason. Hussein provided that by continually breaking the UN resolution and stone walling the inspectors. Did he have a WMD program of course he did he just shut it down but what difference did it make if he did or not. Iran does and will continue to have until we eliminate the religious regime there. They government of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, The UAE and other oil producing countries complain publicly in order to stifle the religious rhetoric in their countries but they need us there to stay in power and to protect there revenues. If the fundamentalist Islamic leaders were to prevail in the Middle East all of the current leaders and their families and fortunes would disappear.

    Yes we are there to protect or oil and the companies that produce that oil but to a more important role we are there to protect our way of life. The Islamic extremist just like the Communist of the 40’ thru the 70’s want to reduce the mass populations of the world back into the stone age of limited education and benign servitude.

    In order to control Persia/Iran and their ultimate goal we must have a significant presence in the Middle East and a Naval presence while formidable is not sufficient. We need land bases and control of large areas to introduce more assets into an area as needed. Being in Iraq provides that while allowing the current governments in the region justification for not making too strenuous a fight to remove our troops from the region. We were at the end of the rope with many about troops and bases left behind after the first Iraqi incursion.

    Considering the money spent on this conflict and the casualties to our troops. Consider the money spent during the cold war to maintain our presence in Europe against the Warsaw Pact and the casualties incurred by our troops in training. The casualties are higher but not alarmingly so and the cash outlay is very comparable in current dollars.

    The difference is we have smaller armed forces than then and the troops are acquiring actual combat experience not just playing games as we did. We are learning the enemy’s abilities and vulnerabilities. We are also decimating their better people and leadership. They have no real training facilities like West Point or Quantico to disseminate gained knowledge to up coming commanders. Their leaders are dying and they are not passing on lessons learned.

    We are creating troops and commanders that are not novices at their craft but skilled and capable leaders for the future.

    I am sorry for you if you cannot see the need but if we acquiesce to the liberal minded do gooders there will be no free society for our children and grand children to inherit. Personally I would like the world to continue and for it’s people to have a say on how to conduct their lives and which religion if any they wish to follow.
    I don't see the point really in continuing this, but ok. I understand what you're saying. My original argument was that our troops are not in Iraq to protect our freedom. We would be just as free if we had never gone into Iraq. That's my only point. Our government will tell us we need to take action or go to war against a country to protect our freedom, when there's other, bigger motives for doing so. Saddam hussein wasn't going to attack us, or his neighbors, he was contained. The only WMD's he had were the ones we gave him during the Iran-Iraq war. If Bush would have said we need to save the Iraqi people, I wouldn't have ever had a problem with going into Iraq. But instead, they lied, and fed everyone a bunch of crap about how we needed to protect our freedom, and the only way to do that was to get Saddam. It was only when everyone realized it was a mistake that they suddenly said oh..it was to free the Iraqi people. THATS MY PROBLEM. Not everything our military does is to protect our freedom, there are other motives. But I guess i'm either not getting that point across, or some people truly believe that every military action this country ever takes is to protect us. I am not ant-military, for the hundredth time, and I am not a liberal, conservative or anything else. I believe what i believe, and when i'm wrong i'll admit it. However, I can't stand people who take everything as a knock against our veterans or our military. If you're fighting for our freedom to say what we want, then respect peoples opinions, and try to respond in a way that doesn't require you to have insult and bash someone for having a different viewpoint as you.

  10. #23
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    We wouldn't be free......we would be a scared nation and that never equals freedom....plus that's not America....if you want it to be then run for president....they seem to be letting anyone do that these days....exp. or not.....



    Please explain how Iraq or the US is not a better country for having a dictator out of power the likes of Saddam.



    It's funny when EVERYONE in the world thought they had weapons of mass destruction.......and we were pushing for weapons inspectors to go into the country to make sure.....and they weren't allowed to go in....we gave them a deadline......allow the inspection or else......or else happened.....now everyone wants to be a arm chair quarterback and call it after the play has gone down.....


    Here's a hint at what I'm getting at do you or can you think of anyone and I mean anyone that was held up in their home and known to be a danger to society and possibly has very bad weapons.....The cops come and do a SEARCH warrant.....if they aren't let in the force there way in if they fight back they get shot or die........It's been going on for a while in many many countries......It's called policing. We just allowed this criminal to go to long he should have been dead in desert storm.

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
    We wouldn't be free......we would be a scared nation and that never equals freedom....plus that's not America....if you want it to be then run for president....they seem to be letting anyone do that these days....exp. or not.....



    Please explain how Iraq or the US is not a better country for having a dictator out of power the likes of Saddam.



    It's funny when EVERYONE in the world thought they had weapons of mass destruction.......and we were pushing for weapons inspectors to go into the country to make sure.....and they weren't allowed to go in....we gave them a deadline......allow the inspection or else......or else happened.....now everyone wants to be a arm chair quarterback and call it after the play has gone down.....


    Here's a hint at what I'm getting at do you or can you think of anyone and I mean anyone that was held up in their home and known to be a danger to society and possibly has very bad weapons.....The cops come and do a SEARCH warrant.....if they aren't let in the force there way in if they fight back they get shot or die........It's been going on for a while in many many countries......It's called policing. We just allowed this criminal to go to long he should have been dead in desert storm.
    Were we scared of Iraq before we invaded? No. Bush had a score to settle

  12. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by air311 View Post
    Were we scared of Iraq before we invaded? No. Bush had a score to settle

    Yeah only bush.......those were UN inspectors....and yes we were scared 9/11 had just happened...we weren't going to sit around and wait for it to happen again......So Iraq would be better off with Saddam still in power? The US would be a safer place?


    By now it should be understood we are a large part of the worlds policing force....it's that simple....WWI...WWII taught us a lot.....9/11 taught us a lot.


    Winston Churchill: "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else."



    So your the leader of the free world.......8 billion people are watching your next move after you just lost the largest amount of money/citizens/memories/world trade center...what do you do...You let someone like Saddam play you for a fool not allowing you in their home to inspect for WMD's? or do you take control and make it happen?
    Last edited by BigJon3475; 02-22-2008 at 05:50 PM.

  13. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvactech13 View Post
    ooops...lol...the link didnt get added.

    I corrected it in the original post....post #20

    sorry

    Roy
    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

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