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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    4

    daikin vs mitsubishi

    I'm doing some design work both large and small and was looking at these two manufacturers Heat recovery systems. From what I can find online both manufacturers have great products but I need a good comparison of the two. The Daikin I see has a three pipe system to the BS Boxes while the Cirty Multi's have a two pipe system. What are the advantages here? Also is there any difference in output temps in extremely hot or cold temperatures? Any info on this comparision would be a huge help in making my decision.

  2. #2
    More help could be given if you explained your situation. Are you looking at the residential City Multi, or the commercial three phase model. Daikin has some distinct advantages if long line sets are to be installed, but the Mitsubishi system has been in use for over 20 years now around the world. I attended the class offered my Mitsubishi for the City Multi as well as installed many of the units. I have installed only a few Daikins and from a service standpoint, installation and field support of the Mitsubishi seems stronger (at least here in Atlanta).

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    4
    Yea i had heard that the daikin can be better on the long pipe runs. I'm looking at all the models the splits, and the bigger heat pumps and heat recovery. just trying to get a feel of which manufacturer would be better. some people have been telling me mitsubishi is having problems with output heat temps at low outside temps, say 0 or -5. I was wondering just what that temp was that mitsubishi is putting out, but they neglected to add that to their site lol. I have searched everywhere on the similarities and differences of these two manufacturers and there is just nothing i could find on the web that really gave a breakdown of "daikin is good here, mitsubishi is good here" and so on. i mean i know they are very similar, but there has to be SOME differences

  4. #4
    Is this for residential install or commercial? The commercial PURY-108 is a completely different animal than the daikin and the smaller 4 ton City Multi for that fact. What size unit are you looking at? If you give me some details on the application, I'll help you with comparative info and sites. For instance, the mitsubishi can be sized for 150% indoor capacity over the outdoor capacity on the 4 ton residential unit as well as the 3 phase PURY models. The PURY models can effectively heat a space with 100 plus degree Fahrenheit temps at 0 degree OA temps (I've witnessed it). The Daikins are very robust machines and well built, I'm just not keen on the initial setup, but both manufacturer's use 2 wire shielded cable controls. The M-net from Mitsubishi is more user friendly, especially with the M-Net maintenece tool. But if you state your application, I'll get you the info.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    4
    ok i'm looking at 4 Cu, we'll call them CU-1, 2, 3, 4. CU-1 is 12 ton, 2 is 14 ton, 3 is 16 ton, 4 is 15 ton. All of the units attached are 4 way cassette's.

  6. #6
    Are you saying four seperate units the first of which is a 12 ton unit or 12000 Btuh unit and so forth across the board? Neither of the two companies can provide that service without huge expense. These variable refrigerant systems were designed to compete with the chill water market. Daikinac.com is a good source or mrslim.com for mitsubishi inquiries. In my area, a local sheet metal supply house (the Tom Barrow Company) reps daikin products and mitsubishi is rep'ed by Mingledorffs. I am still partial to the Mitsubishi products for the simpplicity and plethora of configurations. Also, Mitsubishi will provide full factory support on site during commisioning to ensure proper factory startup of their units, Daikin normally sends a rep from their distributor who may or may not have extensive knowledge of the product.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    1

    Clarifications on Daikin

    Dear kaehvac and Wire-by-Colors. It is a great thing to see the VRV systems being applied and that there are open exchanges of information to support one anothers needs in doing so. I wanted to provide a couple of points of clarification on some seemingly open questions in your exchange as they pertain to what Daikin has available.
    The VRV product is available in both single and three phase configurations and the three phase configuration is available in both 208-230V/3PH/60Hz as well as 460V/3Ph/60Hz. The three phase units are available in nominal sizes of 6, 8, 10, 12, 16, 18, and 20 ton outdoor unit configurations and are able to take advantage of your buildings diversity in applying indoor units that total up to a maximum of 200%.
    Daikin also provides full factory support at start-up and commissioning as well as provides continuous dealer training classes monthly. In the Atlanta area, Daikin has two direct Sales Engineers and a direct Service Technician to provide support to you and all customers. Feel free to contact me if I can be of any assistance or ensure the right points of contact are available to you.

  8. #8

    Go the distance

    For those who have interest in the placing, or farming the outdoor units together, away from the facility, I have no other manufacturer that can match the distances that Daikin AC is providing with their VRV technology. What I see is great, is that the 3 pipe system design gives you the optimal use of the compressor, it lets it run as a pump, which is what it really is! This is why they achieve great distances and with the third pipe, just being a liquid line to transfer it back to the compressor. Remember back in college, the KISS principal, well, that is exactly what Daikin has done. Plus, on Heat Recovery systems, the VRVIII, you can don't have to hang a volkswagon sized branch controller, which I have done. You get free range of placement with smaller branch selector boxes, that can be easily placed in shallow ceiling areas, small knee walls and closets. You want something designed, I'll design them both in their own software and you can take an apple-2-apple look. Daikin AC beats them hands down, plus, the refrigerant line lengths...area actually coming up less! Even with 3 pipes. Imagine that. And talk about start-up. You don't want to have to go around and set each individual fan coil by turning dip-switches, which you are looking upside down if they are in the ceiling....go with Daikin, they self address. I would have saved days on commissioning the start-up...which is DEFINITE MUST with Mitsu in order to receive that 6th year warranty on the system. I'm talking a manual of paperwork to send it. So figure on adding 40 man hours at the end of a project just for addressing and commissioning...and that's tight numbers.

  9. #9
    Let's be clear here. Daikin AC's service manager for GA, is in GA, in the ATL area. They are good about coming out for my start-ups. But, the thing to remember, is Daikin's start-ups are much simpler than Mitsubishis because of the controllers, the intellegence that's inside the outdoor unit at start-up, and it requires less man hours on a start-up. Commissioning is simple, no hundreds of pages to fill out, and their service technician/start-up man takes care of that. Installers job is to install the system, pressure test it, have it ready for start-up. Daikin starts it, commissions it, leaves it there for the customer to run. Then the contractor and customer sets up the scheduled maintenance and lets'er run like a sewing machine, but much quieter. The Daikin Rep, Is Tom Barrow. Co. Mitsubishi IS under Mingledorff's. Mitsubishi will send out a technician as well, not a mingledorffs technician. Let me know your concerns dude.

  10. #10
    One difference to point out. Mitsubishi requires shielded cable. Daikin does not. Daikin requires 16 AWG, regular copper twisted with ground, or 18 AWG depending on the lengths of the run. Why? Daikin has no communication loss with their controls. Do not ever try to run, install and start up a Mitsubishi without the proper wiring. It will create a bad communication and an error will occur at start-up. It's stated within the Mitsubishi manual, go check it. Also, the smaller 3 Ton and 4 Ton Daikin units can do about any high-end residential job I've ever seen. There's not a house built that does not have at least 120% diversity built into it, based on size and positioning to the N. So. East and West positioning. The key is to understand what diversity is, and how to place the units in the correct areas to take advantage of it.

  11. #11
    Remember guys, Daikin has the market outside of the U.S. in variable refrigerant systems. They are, #2 in the world behind Carrier. Unfortunately, we are a wasteful country, especially in GA paying the lowest $ per Kw. My Daikin installations are faster than Mitsubishi's. I don't like having to hang heavy, bulky BC controllers when I can hang several smaller branch selectors on my own, by myself. Give Mitsubishi credit, they've been on TV's and cars and everything else, they're name is known. Daikin's performance is just now getting recognized in our region. Florida and Texas are light years ahead of GA on Daikin installs. Why? They are more conservative of energy than we are. So, the question is, do you want a 2 pipe system that works of mixed refrigerant, being hot/cold gasses that have to be separated by a large heat exchanger inside the branch controller, or have a 3 pipe system that allows the compressor to work as a pump, which is what a compressor is. That's why they become more effecient and pump farther as well as higher from ground up and top-down. Proof is in the design tools. More heating BTU's on Daikin vs. Mitsu and longer pipe runs, smaller diameters also. Cha-ching in the pocket.

  12. #12
    Yes, more BTU's in heating with Daikin in comparison. Why? BS boxes operate on their own with the 3 pipe system, it does not have to be condensated as the Branch Controller box does with Mitsubishi. Want to compare a design, contact me, we'll do one up and proof is in the J-E-LL-O pudding.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    I am unsure myself
    Posts
    1,116
    Installed I am not sure but I think you might like Daikon units I will look into there product and see for myself. Every roof around here has at least one mitsubishi on it, it would be nice to see some new stuff hit the market here.

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