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Thread: Opinion please

  1. #1

    Opinion please

    I have my choices down to two. The Trane TUD080R9V4K furnace with a 4TTX604B100A A/C unit and the Bryant Evolution series model 187ANA042 compressor with 315JAV042 furnace. With cost about the same, which choice is the better unit for the long term. Mtce cost, money savings, etc... Also is the variable speed furnace the way to go? I am told the long term savings payoff, but can't find any numbers to back that up. My wife is questioning me about cost for the variable speed, so I really need some hard numbers. Thanks

  2. #2
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    The Evolution 187ANA042 doesn't exist because the Evolution A/C only comes in full ton sizes; the salesman must mean 187ANA048 (4 tons). The Evolution system has great features. If you search around here you'll see that others are happy with their system. The variable speed air handler is a big bonus for comfort (and energy savings).

  3. #3
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    I'm just starting out in ac and don't have the technical experience to answer your question but I can answer as a home owner. I have a trane unit that is 21 years old and still going. At that age, I'm pretty sure it'll be going out soon, but when it does, I'm going to be hard-pressed to not purchase another Trane.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyRich View Post
    At that age, I'm pretty sure it'll be going out soon, but when it does, I'm going to be hard-pressed to not purchase another Trane.
    Until you see the price.
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  5. #5
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    If you want anything high SEER in a Trane, you don't have any choice but variable speed. Might hit 14 without it using a high end unit but that's about it. Variable speed is definitely worth it. Nobody has convinced me yet that the 16i is worth it though.

    Bryant's Evolution control beats anything Trane has. They may now have the Vision Pro IAQ under their number but that's the closest and that's assuming the dealer knows how to hook up dehumidify on demand and does so. I do like the idea of 50%/100% staging that the Bryant 187 offers compared to the more like 80%/100% out of the Trane scroll.

  6. #6
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    As Loonie points out you're forced into variable at certain SEER levels. If it's an option then no, you will find no hard numbers to prove it's a big money saver because there are none. The manufacturer of the motor says as much with its own data. Saving 100 watts for a few hours a day is meaningless.

    The exception might be if you plan on running the fan 24/7 for filtration or whatever purpose. If you really did run it 24/7x365 then it might save you one or two hundred a year depending.

    I recently replaced a bad controller on a VS motor that was just out of warranty. It wasn't part of any fancy system like you're considering. They were just sold on the idea of VS. And indeed, there are performance characteristics to a VS motor that are worth the money for some. However, the cost of replacing that motor controller wiped out several furnace lifetimes’ worth of energy savings (they don't run the fan 24/7).

    As for your system choices, all I would say is that if they are from different contractors then choose the best contractor. Seriously, focus your scrutiny on brand and you stand a good chance of getting a poor installation. The contractor makes or breaks your system, not the OEM.

  7. #7
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    I'm not too familiar with those model numbers, but it sounds like you're looking at a furnace with air conditioning. Do yourself a favor and consider adding a heat pump to the furnace instead of the a/c. Unless you're in a really warm climate.

  8. #8
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    i like the Trane system and i would purchase the 10 year part and labor warranty. the trane system he quoted you is a R-410a system too. we all now that R-22 is a thing of the past. in a couple years the refrigerant will cost more than the repairs are worth.
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  9. #9

    Confused

    Thanks for the advice. Couple follow ups. I notice that the BTU rating for the Trane unit TUD080R9 is 64,000 / 41,600 and the Bryant 315JAV is 66,000 - 154,000. Thats sounds like quite a bit of difference. I know a little about BTU ratings so I am under the impression that the Bryant puts out a lot more heat unless I am missing something obvious. And I have read some threads about the filters for both units. WOW how damn confusing. The clean effects is either the greatest thing ever or the biggest waste of money. How about the Bryant perfect air filter??? And finally about the freon. One contractor tells me that there is so much R22 stored up from conversions, etc., that no problem with an R-22 system???? Boy oh boy, I feel so stupid. Feedback, please I need to come up with answer this week on a contractor.

  10. #10
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    There’s not as much contradiction to the Clean Effects controversy as you might think. It is pretty amazing when its filters are clean. However, it needs to be cleaned at least monthly to maintain that amazing level of filtration. You should always look at OEM sponsored testing with suspicion. Even so, this page is more truth than poetry. Plus, the system needs to be designed to handle the pressure drop, which quickly rises higher than what they tell you. So it is simultaneously really cool and a pain in the rear.

    Don’t bother with any form of electronic air cleaner unless you’re willing to clean it often. Virtually no homeowner is, even if their initial excitement makes them think they are. Sooner or later their discipline breaks down and their fancy cleaner becomes an expensive placebo. Ever seen someone hanging clothes or stacking stuff on a treadmill? Good intentions. If you want good filtration with relatively low and/or easy maintenance, buy a good media filter. The Bryant product would qualify. However, you can get a good media filter for less than that.

    If you want upgraded filtration because you heard it was a good idea but otherwise don’t know why you want it, then forget it. Put in one inch disposables and be done with it. Fancy filtration for fancy filtration’s sake is silly.

    R-22 stored up from conversions? OK. Interesting. Anyway, why bother with an R-22 systems when R-410A is clearly the future? I have nothing against R-22. I install it once in a blue moon. If you get a particular contractor that’s clearly better than the rest who’s offering R-22 for whatever reason, then go with him. However, when there’s a choice I now always go 410A.

    You probably saw something like this. That BTU range covers several models of furnace. I believe the next three digits in the model number (after the 042) tell you its nominal input rating.

  11. #11
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    I'd say the Perfect Air is worth looking at,we install the Carrier version and customers rave about it.No issues so far.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyRich View Post
    I'm just starting out in ac and don't have the technical experience to answer your question but I can answer as a home owner. I have a trane unit that is 21 years old and still going. At that age, I'm pretty sure it'll be going out soon, but when it does, I'm going to be hard-pressed to not purchase another Trane.
    While I can certainly appreciate your logic, there is not one brand today that is still under the same control it was 20 years ago. That may be a sad truth, but the Trane you have is basically a GE unit and Trane has undergone a few corporate changes since then. (as has every other brand)
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    If you want anything high SEER in a Trane, you don't have any choice but variable speed. Might hit 14 without it using a high end unit but that's about it. Variable speed is definitely worth it. Nobody has convinced me yet that the 16i is worth it though.

    Bryant's Evolution control beats anything Trane has. They may now have the Vision Pro IAQ under their number but that's the closest and that's assuming the dealer knows how to hook up dehumidify on demand and does so. I do like the idea of 50%/100% staging that the Bryant 187 offers compared to the more like 80%/100% out of the Trane scroll.
    I totally agree with the variable speed blower. Without a VS blower, humidity controls are worthless.

    I also agree that a tech must know what they are doing to properly set up the Vision Pro IAQ stat to VS control boards, but then again the Bryant controls also need to be properly set up as well.

    I like the idea of the 50/100 staging using the Bristol compressor, but I still prefer the on the fly stage changing that comes with the Trane/Copeland scroll compressor.
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