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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    67,898
    The outdoor unit will have RLA for compressor, and FLA for the outdoor fan.
    The indoor unit will have FLA for its blower.
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    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Alabama
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    301
    I just removed the Breaker cover and measured with an clamp on ammeter. I hate those meters because the're not very accurate. Not to mention you cant hardly ever get the hot wire inside the clamp circle perfectly.

    The readings was between 15 and 18 amps, I guess the meter just gives you an ideal.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
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    6,272

    Thumbs up 3-ton with 11.6 EER and 8.7 HSPF = 2.72 kW = 2,720 Watts

    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    I couldn't find this information on the unit or online. It is a Trane 3 Ton split heat pump, outdoor section model # 4TWX4036A1000AB, Indoor section model# 4TEE3F37A1000AA.

    I would like to know how many watts are used with just the heat pump running and with heat pump and emergency heat.

    Thanks for the help.
    OUTDOOR UNIT WITH AIR HANDLERS
    ______________ COOLING SENSIBLE ________ _HEATING
    COIL _____CFM CAPACITY CAP KW SEER _EER _CAP. _KW HSPF COP
    4TEE3F31A1 1220 34200 26000 3.20 13.00 10.7 _ 31800 2.82 8.1 3.3

    4TEE3F37A1 1170 35400 254003.05 14.0 11.6_32000_2.72 8.7 3.5


    32000.0 BTU/Hr
    11.60 __ EER
    2758.6 _ Watts
    230.0 __ Volts
    11.99 __ Amps
    Designer Dan
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    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    930
    If you really want to measure electrical usage in your home, get one of these: http://www.theenergydetective.com/index.html

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    301
    Quote Originally Posted by dan sw fl View Post
    OUTDOOR UNIT WITH AIR HANDLERS
    ______________ COOLING SENSIBLE ________ _HEATING
    COIL _____CFM CAPACITY CAP KW SEER _EER _CAP. _KW HSPF COP
    4TEE3F31A1 1220 34200 26000 3.20 13.00 10.7 _ 31800 2.82 8.1 3.3

    4TEE3F37A1 1170 35400 254003.05 14.0 11.6_32000_2.72 8.7 3.5


    32000.0 BTU/Hr
    11.60 __ EER
    2758.6 _ Watts
    230.0 __ Volts
    11.99 __ Amps
    Your getting more heat out than your putting in, Correct me if i am wrong but 1 watt is 3.412 Btu's. Thats 9396 Btu's/H used from the Grid to output your claim of 32000 btu's/H. Nice

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    117
    Your getting more heat out than your putting in
    That's what heat pumps are for.

  7. #33
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    Jul 2009
    Location
    Alabama
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    Thats impossible,, What am I missing here?

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    67,898
    Quote Originally Posted by atlantis1 View Post
    Your getting more heat out than your putting in, Correct me if i am wrong but 1 watt is 3.412 Btu's. Thats 9396 Btu's/H used from the Grid to output your claim of 32000 btu's/H. Nice

    Thats the way heat pumps work. Which would give a COP of 3.41
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  9. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by atlantis1 View Post
    Thats impossible,, What am I missing here?
    You apparently think a heat pump makes heat. it doesn't.
    It moves it from where it is, to where it is not.

    Some of the heat comes from the compressor its self(heat of compression).
    The rest from the heat in the outside air.
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  10. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Alabama
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    301
    Hrm. I respect everyones talent and knowledge here, And appreciate having you guy's here to talk with. Its a big bonus for anyone. I know the books etc,, all explain how the heat transfer works. I don't believe that the condenser is taking heat from the outside air, I believe that when a high pressure liquid at a higher temperature is metered down to a lower pressure and temperature it instantly heats up during the phase change, No matter if a condenser is present or not, Sorta like how you can get burnt by testing a diesel injector.

    When I was reading how the system was used as a heat transfer much like you just explained, I didn't like what I was reading, but I learned it that way anyways for testing purposes. Again, this is just how I feel about the situation. Its also said that the evaporator on an ac takes the heat from air passing over the evaporator, and causes the refrigerant inside the evaporator to boil into a vapor, taking the heat from the air,,,, I Totally disagree with that, The metering device is what converts the liquid to an vapor with the help of the pressure drop. This is how I see it, The taught theory bothers me.

    I see that I should sit down and learn what COP is. When I get the time, hopfully tonight I'll sit down and get that knocked out for better understandings. Perhaps the books are correct, thats just how I feel about it,,, It's all theory anyways, right?

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Tucson AZ
    Posts
    166
    Atlantis, patent your ideas quickly, and make a working model of an outside condenser without the space consuming and ugly condenser coils seen on modern high efficiency units.

    In fact, if the coil is not needed, maybe the whole thing could be built into the indoor air handler and save all kinds of $ on installation costs. The market will be yours!

    On the other hand, maybe you should reconsider your ideas and adopt the more conventional view supported by everyone in the industry.

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    117
    Lets see...
    I don't believe that the condenser is taking heat from the outside air
    You're right. It is evaporator that takes the heat from outside. Maybe a little confusing because the outside unit is condenser when the heat pump is used for cooling. Outside unit is not always condenser. Only in cooling mode.

    I believe that when a high pressure liquid at a higher temperature is metered down to a lower pressure and temperature it instantly heats up during the phase change
    It cools down and draws heat from outside air and boils (evaporates). This is the point of heat pump. Very cold refrigerant takes heat from cool air. This is the point that the "magic energy from nowhere" is added to the system.

    Its also said that the evaporator on an ac takes the heat from air passing over the evaporator, and causes the refrigerant inside the evaporator to boil into a vapor, taking the heat from the air,,,,
    You got it! Only this time the evaporator is in the outside unit.

    The metering device is what converts the liquid to an vapor with the help of the pressure drop.
    Nope. The metering device and free space in the evaporator only create conditions in which evaporating is possible. Only thing missing is the heat and that comes from outside air. Now the refrigerant can boil. This is the reason why you can't use heat pump in very cold conditions. The refrigerant wont boil if there is no heat for phase change to happen.

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    301
    What I was trying to say. When the Cooled Vapor enters the compressor it is forced threw the compressor causing the vapor to become super heated, A drop in temp at the condenser converts the super heated vapor into liquid. It then travels threw the metering device becoming cold due to the pressure drop on the other side of the metering device caused by the volume of the evaporator and fatter line. I guess the high pressure liquid does boil threw the metering device and boil in the evaporator becoming cold. The condenser is good for volume, without the pressure drop of course you can't convert. I should have better worded it. But its something to think about.

    I'll read over your guy's post and think on it. Let me take in whats posted and do some more thinking on this situation, see if I can see this threw another angle. The A coil is made for a fan, other than that it would still work if you removed it as long as you replace the volume with either lots of coil tubing, or tank, It would still get cold. Thats all I was meaning by that. What happens when the unit is in ac and running and the blower motor isn't working, what would happen to the evaporator then if the unit continued to run with a faulty blower.

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