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  1. #14
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    I guess you don't get it. Tridium has their Niagra Framework. Other vendors don't make a box that communicates Niagra Framework. It's proprietary.

    Further, when you are interfacing multiple protocols in the box, you are essentially having a gateway of sorts in the box itself.

    This would differ from a 100% Lonworks network whereby the supervisory box(es) and the controllers can all be peer to peer under the same architecture. So everything is interchangeable. (I choose the word carefully)

    Future conversion of Tridium to something else would be about as expensive as converting that Siemens to Tridium.

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_Worthingt View Post
    Davetec,

    Absolutely it does, it does not replace the logic, nor alters the logic in the Siemens/whatever field device, it just interacts with the NV'S IE, a command is given from the Jace or another device on another protocol and translates it to a message that the Siemens/whatever device understands and vise versa.

    My kids can operate the systems I design. There are No limitations to what Tridium provides. "If" you can think it, Dream it, you can make it happen using Tridium, period.

    What happens "when" you become dissatisfied Siemens or whom ever else for that matter? are you going to have multiple frontend's on one campus?

    That's just silly, why not have something that gives you virtually endless options??
    You didn't really answer my question. I will give you a comparison to work with.

    If I put a Tridium front end next to a Siemens front end would you be able to duplicate the functionality and desmonstrate it? It is all fine and good that you can access the same points but in a customers eyes if you can't do something they could do with "the old system" your credibilty is shot.
    You lost your dongle!

  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by davetec View Post
    You didn't really answer my question. I will give you a comparison to work with.

    If I put a Tridium front end next to a Siemens front end would you be able to duplicate the functionality and desmonstrate it? It is all fine and good that you can access the same points but in a customers eyes if you can't do something they could do with "the old system" your credibilty is shot.
    Would not the customer be interactacting with the same points? What would be lost? the ball and chain attached to Siemens perhaps?

  4. #17
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    Yep. OK. You replaced that ball and chain with yours and lost any product centric goodies Siemens has with their controllers.

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    I guess you don't get it. Tridium has their Niagra Framework. Other vendors don't make a box that communicates Niagra Framework. It's proprierty.

    This would differ from a 100% Lonworks network whereby the supervisory box(es) and the controllers can all be peer to peer under the same architecture. So everything is interchangeable. (I choose the word carefully)

    Future conversion of Tridium to something else would be about as expensive as converting that Siemens to Tridium.
    Tridium and their vendors only requirement is to be certified to be able to use, hardly proprietary. should not a customer seek out a Lonmark certified contractor as opposed to a non certified one? whats the diff??

    How is Lons peer to peer going to save me money by ripping out several other buildings of whatever other protocol, when I could simply just integrate them all?

    I think I get it........

  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_Worthingt View Post
    Would not the customer be interactacting with the same points? What would be lost? the ball and chain attached to Siemens perhaps?
    You answered my question with three questions. What would be gained, a new ball and chain?
    You lost your dongle!

  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by davetec View Post
    You answered my question with three questions. What would be gained, a new ball and chain?
    Freedom !!!!!

  8. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_Worthingt View Post
    Freedom !!!!!
    So after confusing the original poster, what system have you provided? Is Tridium going to take over supporting the existing controllers on his job?

    In my opinion sysint has suggested a clean solution in reply #5 to this thread.

    More than likely if this is a public bid job koolncali may not have much input to what gets put in.
    You lost your dongle!

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by davetec View Post
    So after confusing the original poster, what system have you provided? Is Tridium going to take over supporting the existing controllers on his job?.....More than likely if this is a public bid job koolncali may not have much input to what gets put in.
    Great points. Transitioning to Tridium in a larger site is an undertaking. If the existing Siemens is working I say leave it be. I do understand that if future pricing is a consideration, moving that central plant to a well thought out open platform with a gateway is not such a bad idea. That way if the "man" (Siemens) isn't providing decent pricing on retrofits you can wean yourself off of them without breaking the bank. From my experience chipping away at the block seems the least expensive via Lonworks. Possibly you say a Tridium + Lonworks has the potential to get there too but initially you wouldn't need Tridium for that central system. You could go lonworks and dump a Loytec touchscreen in there and go with a gate to the Siemens systems and they would be more than happy to start. Then they could add routers later for other areas if Siemens didn't get the hint they need to play ball.

    EDIT: What I'm saying is that in this instance any straying from Siemens is better off on the flattest most flexible peer to peer architecture. I'm of the opinion that's lonworks.... Seems to me you Tridium guys agree because most often I see Tridium + Lonworks installations.
    Last edited by sysint; 02-14-2008 at 02:35 PM.

  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    EDIT: What I'm saying is that in this instance any straying from Siemens is better off on the flattest most flexible peer to peer architecture. I'm of the opinion that's lonworks.... Seems to me you Tridium guys agree because most often I see Tridium + Lonworks installations.
    Agreed, Lon is the flattest most flexible peer to peer architecture there is in my oppinion. I think what Chris is trying to say is that with AX, you get one very powerful front end, much more powerful than any other I have seen. Now that sedona is going to be a part of that, even more door's will open up, and countless possibilities. NO, its not "Open" in the sense of being able to use multiple vendors programming tools to work on the system. But in my eye's, the power of the framework far outweighs the "flat" architecture.
    I AM NOT arguing that LNS is not a good solution, but I am saying that AX has it's benifiets as well.
    “It is impossible for one to learn what one thinks they already know"

  11. #24
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    sysint,

    I agree with your last post, most Tridum guys do prefer Lonworks over anything else, self inculded. I was just attempting to let the end user know that are several different options out there besides Lonworks and Siemens and if there are other things out there on their campus; that Tridium can offer a seemless intergration of. IMHO, one the of the best front ends out there, its a one package deal.

  12. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by codewriter View Post
    ...NO, its not "Open" in the sense of being able to use multiple vendors programming tools to work on the system. But in my eye's, the power of the framework far outweighs the "flat" architecture.
    I AM NOT arguing that LNS is not a good solution, but I am saying that AX has it's benifiets as well.
    Then at this time it's cheaper, easier and cleaner to go with a gate. If Siemens jerks the guy around when the system expands again you could cost out going with a different front end of which Tridium may be more cost effective.

  13. #26
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    "Now that sedona is going to be a part of that" --- It would be nice to have some information on that....

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