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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,760
    I just don't see where it matters if the driers lifespan is 8 minutes, 10 minutes, or 2 days.

    If a new unit doesn't come wiht one, put it in. If there is moisture, it will collect it. If there isn't any, they don't cost that much to justify not using one.
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  2. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    houston, texas
    Posts
    3,787
    the only manf. i've seen that said "no drier" was Samsung concerning their mini split systems. They also said only one compressor c/o would be warrantied.
    I'm not tolerating Political Correctness anymore, from now on it's tell it like it is.

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  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Elkton, MD
    Posts
    141
    If you were able to reach a perfect vacuum with your pump a drier would not be necessary. The fact is that when you evacuate to 500 microns as many manufacturers recommend there is still a substantial amount of moisture in the system that must be removed.

    A drier by design must trap as much moisture in one pass as possible to prevent moisture from entering the expansion device and freezing creating a blockage or larger than necessary pressure drop.

    ARI 710-86 established an end point dryness standard of 5PPM with a dessicant drier; if the dessicant cannot achieve an end point standard of 5PPM it is simply not proper for refrigerant use.

    Unfortunately our industry does a very poor job of evacuating a system and many technicians have no clue what a micron gauge would be used for if they were provided one. It would be the same response if you provided a technician a magnehelic and ask them to determine airflow by static pressure.

    Do you need a drier? ABSOLUTELY

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,296
    Cast my vote toward "Do you need a drier? ABSOLUTELY".

    If there is some literature out there that states a drier only absorbs moisture for 8 to 10 minutes, that piece of literature is full of it.

    The rate at which a drier reaches saturation in a refrigeration circuit depends entirely upon how dry that system is prior to being charged with refrigerant. And, as Robo stated, all refrigerants contain trace amounts of moisture. Refrigerant oils, especially POE, are hygroscopic, meaning they readily absorb moisture. It is difficult to remove this moisture from the oil via evacuation. Think about it...suppose you had a clear container filled halfway with a mixture of oil and water. The oil, being lighter than water, rises toward the top of the container. Water wants to settle toward the bottom. You begin evacuating this container. The water particles are trapped in the oil...how are they supposed to reach the area under a vacuum to where they can flash off into vapor and be removed? The vapor pressures of oil and water are different, as I would imagine the boiling points to be.

    Circulate this same oil, sending it through a desiccant, and you catch that moisture you couldn't otherwise get with the vacuum pump. If the desiccant loads up quickly, it was a wet system that did it. That falls back onto the technician to take better care toward keeping moisture out of the system, or removing the moisture as much as possible prior to placing the system and a new drier into service.

  5. #18
    Wow. Thanks for all of the responses. Like i have stated before, i completely understand that a dryer should be installed. And on any system that i open up, i do install a dryer. It is a cheap safety to have. The reason i need this information, is due to an issue with an ex-employee and a customer with about 80 condensers. This in formation will save our company thousands of dollars from a mistake of this ex-employee. I think the information from ESCO will be sufficient. I appreciate all of your help.

    P.S. This forum is amazing. I wish i would of found this a long time ago.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern VA 38 degrees N by 76 degrees W
    Posts
    5,058
    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution View Post
    Wow. Thanks for all of the responses. Like i have stated before, i completely understand that a dryer should be installed. And on any system that i open up, i do install a dryer. It is a cheap safety to have. The reason i need this information, is due to an issue with an ex-employee and a customer with about 80 condensers. This in formation will save our company thousands of dollars from a mistake of this ex-employee. I think the information from ESCO will be sufficient. I appreciate all of your help.

    P.S. This forum is amazing. I wish i would of found this a long time ago.
    What mistake did your former employee make that this information will exonerate you from liability?

  7. #20
    the was job completed for a roofing company that had the removal and replacement of these 80 condensing units. the employee was a sales man who had sold the job and directed the entire job. In his proposal he did not include filter dryers and did not order filter dryers to have on the job site to have them installed. Now that 3 months have passed, the roofing company is holding back payment due to the maintenance staff that noticed that not all of the systems had a dryer installed. They now would like us to come back and install dryers on 80 units, unless we can show that it is not required but only recommended. If we have to perform this, there is a complete loss to the entire job. It would of been cheaper to give them $100 and not even do the job. But for our reputation we may need to go back and do it either way.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    443
    deleted

  9. #22
    Right it is poor workmanship. It should of been done and him being a sales manager should of also been managed more tightly. Its easy to see how difficult it is to trust most people.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern VA 38 degrees N by 76 degrees W
    Posts
    5,058
    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution View Post
    the was job completed for a roofing company that had the removal and replacement of these 80 condensing units. the employee was a sales man who had sold the job and directed the entire job. In his proposal he did not include filter dryers and did not order filter dryers to have on the job site to have them installed. Now that 3 months have passed, the roofing company is holding back payment due to the maintenance staff that noticed that not all of the systems had a dryer installed. They now would like us to come back and install dryers on 80 units, unless we can show that it is not required but only recommended. If we have to perform this, there is a complete loss to the entire job. It would of been cheaper to give them $100 and not even do the job. But for our reputation we may need to go back and do it either way.
    Depending on how the job was quoted and the procedure would dictate your liability.

    What type of equipment?

  11. #24
    It was never explicit one way or the other in the quote that they would be replaced or added. The equipment was 10 to 15 year old 2.5 - 5 ton split systems. I did just received and executive decision that we will be returning to install dryers. It is the right thing to do and it saves face. I appreciate all of your help.

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