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  1. #1

    13 Seer vs 14 Seer

    Assuming the job is sized, designed, and installed correctly, is it worth a couple hundred bucks to upgrade from a 13 Seer 4-Ton Ducane AC Unit to a 14 Seer 4-Ton Ducane AC Unit? On the surface, it seems to me that it certainly would be, but would like to confirm w/ the experts.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    1,858
    Why not move up to a 16 seer, or a 19 seer? SEER is about efficiency. If your're in a high cooling demand area, and plan to stay in that house for a long time, a higher seer rating may be cost effective.

  3. #3
    1.) I am not in a high cooling area. 2.) For a mulititude of reasons I choose not to get into, the only options I am considering are 13 Seer and 14 Seer. Back to my original question:

    Assuming the job is sized, designed, and installed correctly, is it worth a couple hundred bucks to upgrade from a 13 Seer 4-Ton Ducane AC Unit to a 14 Seer 4-Ton Ducane AC Unit? On the surface, it seems to me that it certainly would be, but would like to confirm w/ the experts.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    12,000
    No.
    Perhaps you should have read the instructions before calling.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    6,826
    Jr is a man of few words. Or is that word?? Anyway, the definition of a SEER number, in theory at least, is the number of Btu's of performance you get from 1-watt of electricty burned. So theoretically, a 13-SEER AC unit will deliver 13 Btu's for every 1-watt of electricity and a 14-SEER AC unit will deliver 14-Btu's for every 1-watt of electricty. So you can do the math as easily as anyone. Or you can skip the math and just take Jrbenny's wisdom at face value.
    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Tucson AZ
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    Looks like you made up your mind for the 14 seer unit yesterday??

    Quote: "I am about to pull the trigger on a job that calls for the following equipment to be installed: 1 4-Ton 14 Seer Ducane Central AC System and 1 4-Ton 14 Seer Ducane heat Pump."

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
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    Louisville, KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrbenny View Post
    No.
    Your ducts and the rest of the envelope likely leak enough that any increase in efficiency is nullified.

    There's a few more words for ya.
    Perhaps you should have read the instructions before calling.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Definitely worth it if your keeping the system for 50 years. My guess it the payback would be about 40 years in an average climate. Check with the government, they have charts that can tell you.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrbenny View Post
    Your ducts and the rest of the envelope likely leak enough that any increase in efficiency is nullified.

    There's a few more words for ya.
    Whew. Thanks jr. I thought maybe you were hoarse or something nasty like that.
    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    I don't know
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    Check for applicable tax rebates before making a decision.

    Also make sure that you are comparing units which are of equal quality with similar specifications; sometimes going for the next unit up can mean getting a scroll compressor (as opposed to a recip) and/or a lower noise level.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Twilight Zone
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    2,964
    Quote Originally Posted by skippedover View Post
    So theoretically, a 13-SEER AC unit will deliver 13 Btu's for every 1-watt of electricity and a 14-SEER AC unit will deliver 14-Btu's for every 1-watt of electricty.
    Wow. That is very wrong (sorry). I don't mean to be rude, but:

    EER = system cooling btus / compressor power draw in watts. A 36,000 btu system that draws 3000 watts at 95F outside laboratory conditions has a 12 EER.

    SEER is a take-off on EER to try and account for use in various (seasonal) operating conditions. SEER is a meaningless number.

    For a fixed speed fan motor in the air handler:
    SEER = EER (at 82F outside) x Degredation Coefficient (fudge factor).

    For a v-s fan motor in the air handler:
    SEER = EER at 67, 72, 77, 82, 87, 92, 97, 102 F. The temps are not weighted equally in the calc. The first 3 temps contribute 60+% to the SEER calculation. The highest 3 temps are less than 7% of the calc.

    The SEER calc is weighted to low outside temps. What happens to high SEER numbers in scorching hot Florida or Texas summers? It drops like a rock. Some manufacturers even sacrifice btus to get high SEER numbers. This is why EER, measured at 95F outside, determines true operating costs for cooling.

    Just because a system is high SEER, does not mean it is more efficient, or cheaper, to run. It just means it has a high SEER number.

    Whichever SEER the OP chooses, 12 EER minimum should be selected.

    Also, many 14 SEER systems have higher btu ratings and HSPFs (if it is a heat pump) compared to their 13 SEER counterparts.

    Take care.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    451
    Nice gary

    EER is steady state, operating at peak efficiency. It does not account for the time period it takes from startup to peak. Nor does it take into account when the thermostat is satisfied and the coil is cool and obsorbs heat (in the ductwork not the conditioned space), pressure equalizes, refrigerant attracts to the coil only to be pumped back on next call for cooling...more inefficiency that EER does not account for.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobb25 View Post
    Definitely worth it if your keeping the system for 50 years. My guess it the payback would be about 40 years in an average climate. Check with the government, they have charts that can tell you.
    Not worth it for 40 year paybacks, probably won't last 50 years either.

    The only way i would go to a higher seer is if the rebates and or tax credits offset the cost.
    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes...that way you are a mile from them and have their shoes

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    66,755
    Depends on your electric rate, and your cooling needs/ degree days.
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