Is high energy usage normal when heating with XL-16i?

[second opinion]

I guess if the wiring is correct, I'm left to wonder what the problem may be. It just doesn't seem right that a new unit would be using considerably more electricity compared to an old one in the winter. I haven't seen many complaints on here about the electric usage so it seems like something must be unique with my situation. All the numbers that the installer tested for appear to be inline with what they should be so I don't know what to think now. I guess I have until May to decide to have them rip this unit out and try something else but as far as efficiency is concerned, I didn't see too many units out there that were as efficient as this unit was so it'll be fun trying to find an alternative system.

You have several problems from what I can see. The dip switches are incorect for your equipment and heater size.

The airflow is set for 3.5 tons not 3.
The airflow selected for aux heat is only 900 cfm for 20 KW.

W1/W2/W3 are tied together giving you 20 KW for defrost and aux.

After re-setting the dip switches and adjusting the charge, there are several choices that you can make. Have the auxillary heat devided with outdoor Tstats or switch to the Honeywell IAQ and seperate it and get auxillary heat indication on the screen.

[s012adh]

You have several problems from what I can see. The dip switches are incorect for your equipment and heater size.

The airflow is set for 3.5 tons not 3.
The airflow selected for aux heat is only 900 cfm for 20 KW.

W1/W2/W3 are tied together giving you 20 KW for defrost and aux.

After re-setting the dip switches and adjusting the charge, there are several choices that you can make. Have the auxillary heat devided with outdoor Tstats or switch to the Honeywell IAQ and seperate it and get auxillary heat indication on the screen.

Ideally what should the dip switches be set to?

So should W1-W3 not be tied together? What disadvantage does this provide?

When you talk about the aux heat being divided with an outdoor thermostat, what are u referring to here? I have an outdoor thermostat on the unit and currently have my thermostat set so that aux heat doesn't come on above 40 degrees, even if I raise the thermostat several degrees. I have tested this part and no that it works.

[mayguy]

What do you have for T-stat? (didn't see it off hand.)

I would suggest the IAQ, that can stage 3 stage of the electric heat to advoid putting it all on at once.

[s012adh]

It's a Trane 802 thermostat.

[mayguy]

It's a Trane 802 thermostat.

is X2 and W1 is wired at the t-stat?

[s012adh]

is X2 and W1 is wired at the t-stat?

Yes it is.

[mayguy]

Yes it is.

As Second Opinion pointed out..

2/W3 are tied together giving you 20 KW for defrost and aux.

The installer wired wrong in away, really you do NOT need all that heat on at once.

[second opinion]

Look at your thermostat wiring diagram page # 4 figure #10. You can seperate your auxilary heat with BAYSTAT250 mounted outdoors or you can purchase the Honeywell IAQ and stage the electric with 2 stages.

Make sure that your outdoor Tstat wire is run in a seperate cable.

Try staging them at 30/20 degrees.

Have them change your dip switches for #7 and #8 to OFF/OFF for your electric heat.

You should not need 65500 btus for suplimental heat and defrost. You should see your power consumption drop after the changes.

[geodude]

Use the tcont803 stat with the xl16i OR the 9000 IAQ stat. As has been stated already, split the strips 10/10 half for aux half for defrost.

[hvac-master]

The XL16i heat pump is an excellent product when the system has been installed correctly. There are several considerations when determining whether the problems you are encountering are application or product related.
1) The maximum lineset length is 80 feet with a maximum vertical lift of 25 feet.
2) The dipswitches must be configured correctly for CFM and Outdoor unit tonnage.
3) A 16 SEER unit is only 16 SEER during the cooling season. The HSPF(Heating Seasonal Performance Factor) of this unit may not be much higher than the HSPF of a 13 SEER product.
4) These units are oftem mis-wired by the installing contractor. The product installation manual requires that this unit be wired as a TWO STEP and the contractor often wires as a TWO STAGE. As the unit utilizes a single compressor that is staged at 67% first stage and 100% second stage it has different airflow requirements than a two stage product that is 50% capacity stage one and 100% stage two.
5)The thermostat may have the capability of locking out the auxilary heat above a pre-determined adjustable outdoor temperature when utilized with an outdoor temperature sensor. If the control does not have this capability have the contractor install a TAYSTAT250 outdoor thermostat to prevent operation of electric heat.
6) The indoor coil should be an ARI rated match to provide proper capacity and HSPF/SEER. The XL16i has a HSPF between 8.3 and 9.2 when matched with an ARI rated coil. If the match-up is not ARI rated it could be less than expected.

This is an abbreviated list of common application errors and may not resolve your issue.

Good luck!

[hvac-master]

The product ratings may be found at http://www.aridirectory.org

[s012adh]

The XL16i heat pump is an excellent product when the system has been installed correctly. There are several considerations when determining whether the problems you are encountering are application or product related.
1) The maximum lineset length is 80 feet with a maximum vertical lift of 25 feet.
2) The dipswitches must be configured correctly for CFM and Outdoor unit tonnage.
3) A 16 SEER unit is only 16 SEER during the cooling season. The HSPF(Heating Seasonal Performance Factor) of this unit may not be much higher than the HSPF of a 13 SEER product.
4) These units are oftem mis-wired by the installing contractor. The product installation manual requires that this unit be wired as a TWO STEP and the contractor often wires as a TWO STAGE. As the unit utilizes a single compressor that is staged at 67% first stage and 100% second stage it has different airflow requirements than a two stage product that is 50% capacity stage one and 100% stage two.
5)The thermostat may have the capability of locking out the auxilary heat above a pre-determined adjustable outdoor temperature when utilized with an outdoor temperature sensor. If the control does not have this capability have the contractor install a TAYSTAT250 outdoor thermostat to prevent operation of electric heat.
6) The indoor coil should be an ARI rated match to provide proper capacity and HSPF/SEER. The XL16i has a HSPF between 8.3 and 9.2 when matched with an ARI rated coil. If the match-up is not ARI rated it could be less than expected.

This is an abbreviated list of common application errors and may not resolve your issue.

Good luck!

Well the installer (as well as the president of the company) is coming out next Tuesday to take a look at things. I know according to ARI, my specific unit has an HSPF of 8.75. From the recommendations of other people here, it sounds like the dip switches are set incorrectly. As far as wiring it up for 2 stage vs. 2 step, I don't know if that is the case...Is that something you can gleam off the pictures I took of the wiring? I do currently have the thermostat locking out aux heat above 40 degrees and have tested this and it seems to be working correctly.

[BONZ]

I Came In On This In The Middle And Im Not And Engineer But It Would Seem To Me That Your Electric Heat Is The Source Of Yur Problem. Your Electric Problems Occured When You Started Using 2nd Stage And Aux. You Have 20 Kw Of Electric Heat Which Seems High To Me But Im Not Sure About Your Climate. Your Heating Stages Are All Tied Together As Per The Picture You Submitted. When Ive Done It Before, W1 And W2 Are Wired Through Seperate Outside Stats And Your Output From Your Condenser During Defrost Should Be Connected To W3. Assumming That The Charge Was Properly Weighed In, The Pipe Sizes Are Correct And The Pressures Match The Chart In The Service Facts,the Filters Are Clean Etc, Your Problem Sounds To Be Electric Heat Related. My Old Boss Used To Say "dont Chase Btu's Down Rat Holes" Youll Find That Most Problems Are Very Simple And Have A Way Of Getting Complicated

[BONZ]

Well the installer (as well as the president of the company) is coming out next Tuesday to take a look at things. I know according to ARI, my specific unit has an HSPF of 8.75. From the recommendations of other people here, it sounds like the dip switches are set incorrectly. As far as wiring it up for 2 stage vs. 2 step, I don't know if that is the case...Is that something you can gleam off the pictures I took of the wiring? I do currently have the thermostat locking out aux heat above 40 degrees and have tested this and it seems to be working correctly.

ITS BEEN 10 DAYS AND I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. HELLO.....ANYBODY.......HELLO

[s012adh]

Because of the crappy weather we've been having lately here in Ohio, the installers finally were able to come out today to check things out. One thing that was discovered was that the wire going to one set of heat banks was loose so I was only using the set of banks when aux was on. I know that made a big difference in the temperature output at the register is it shot the temperature up from 100 to 126. If I was only using 1 heat bank and the electric bill was so high, I have to wonder if fixing this could make the electric usage worse...

They also did some tweaking to the heat pump to get it more inline with factory specs. Before the tweaks, they were showing the BTU output at just over 20,300 (at 32 degrees) and after they tweaked it, the BTU output was 23,200. With the tweaks it raised the COP number to just above 3 and the EER was raised to be 10.2.

Aside from those 2 changes, they said everything else was in order and correct, including how the dip switches were set. They said the airflow setting (even though it appears to be set to 3.5 tons) is set correctly since they're getting about 1200 cfm. And they said that they always set the aux airflow setting to be lower as it helps to increase comfort.

In a couple of days, we're supposed to have some pretty cold days again so I'll be able to tell if the changes that were made had any effect whatsoever on the electric usage. Once I am able to determine that, I'll let everyone know my findings.

[JBM1000]

All of this info for a residential topic? Pro Forum , you think?

[second opinion]

Because of the crappy weather we've been having lately here in Ohio, the installers finally were able to come out today to check things out. One thing that was discovered was that the wire going to one set of heat banks was loose so I was only using the set of banks when aux was on. I know that made a big difference in the temperature output at the register is it shot the temperature up from 100 to 126. If I was only using 1 heat bank and the electric bill was so high, I have to wonder if fixing this could make the electric usage worse...

They also did some tweaking to the heat pump to get it more inline with factory specs. Before the tweaks, they were showing the BTU output at just over 20,300 (at 32 degrees) and after they tweaked it, the BTU output was 23,200. With the tweaks it raised the COP number to just above 3 and the EER was raised to be 10.2.

Aside from those 2 changes, they said everything else was in order and correct, including how the dip switches were set. They said the airflow setting (even though it appears to be set to 3.5 tons) is set correctly since they're getting about 1200 cfm. And they said that they always set the aux airflow setting to be lower as it helps to increase comfort.

In a couple of days, we're supposed to have some pretty cold days again so I'll be able to tell if the changes that were made had any effect whatsoever on the electric usage. Once I am able to determine that, I'll let everyone know my findings.

Wow these guys are good they have better BTU outputs in the field than the factory!

[s012adh]

Wow these guys are good they have better BTU outputs in the field than the factory!

I know when they left, they told me that if I wanted them to, at any time they would call a Trane specialist to come down to take a look at things. Is it normal for the heat pump to need "tweaked" to get it optimized? How is it possible to have better numbers out in the field than the factory?

[BONZ]

I know when they left, they told me that if I wanted them to, at any time they would call a Trane specialist to come down to take a look at things. Is it normal for the heat pump to need "tweaked" to get it optimized? How is it possible to have better numbers out in the field than the factory?

I DONT WANT TO PASS JUDGEMENT ON YOUR CONTRACTOR. IF YOU THINK HE DESERVES THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT, CONSIDER THE ACCURACY OF THE METERS AND THE COSISTENCY OF READINGS IN THE FIELD VERSUS THOSE IN THE FACTORY. IF YOU SAW THE IMPROVEMENT YOURSELF THEN MAYBE YOU GOT THE BTUH BOOST BUT NOT AN ACCURATE TOTAL. THE PROOF WILL BE IN THE ELECTRIC BILL (OR METER READING).
I WOULD NOT HESITATE TO BRING IN THE TRANE SPECIALIST. BEING A SERVICE TECH MYSELF, I LIKE WHEN THE SPECIALIST COMES OUT BECAUSE IT WILL GIVE THE CUSTOMER PIECE OF MIND AND IT GIVES ME THE OPORTUNITY TO WATCH HOW THE EXPERTS DO IT. ALSO IF MY COMPANY IS MAKING A MISTAKE, IT GIVES US THE OPORTUNITY TO LEARN AND CORRECT IT FOR THIS JOB AND FUTURE ONES. SOMETIMES WE AS TECHS NEED TO BE HUMBLED. LOOK FOWARD TO HEARING THE RESULTS OF THE LATEST TWEAK. BY THE WAY, WHAT WAS THE TWEAK? ADJUSTING CHARGE?

[s012adh]

The tweaks and hooking up the loose wire seems to have made a significant difference. We've had several cold days recently and the usage has dropped dramatically...On the order of about 40-45kwh per day (at a minimum). Just a couple of days ago, we had our coldest day of the year with the low dropping to -6 and a high of 22 and usage in 24 hours was 180kwh which is a far cry from our previous coldest day when it got down to -3 and a high of 26 and the usage was 235kwh.

Main reason I didn't have them call the Trane specialist is that if the changes the installers made worked, I didn't think there was much point to it. I know that the charge was changed some but the installer made it sound like they made other tweaks too to the heat pump. I wonder if the tweaks made more of a difference or the loose wire?!