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  1. #1

    120v round dampers ?

    I'm perfectly happy with a 24v Honeywell ARD damper but some how an electrician got a say in my next project. Anyways, he is suggesting a 120v round damper instead of a 24v. So my orders are to see if they are optainable and to see if they work in the same way as an ARD damper.

  2. #2
    Oh, the question. Has any body worked with 120v dampers? So far my suppliers shot me down. ("No such product") Are there any installers out there?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Ohio
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    1,720
    Quote Originally Posted by internala/c View Post
    I'm perfectly happy with a 24v Honeywell ARD damper but some how an electrician got a say in my next project. Anyways, he is suggesting a 120v round damper instead of a 24v. So my orders are to see if they are optainable and to see if they work in the same way as an ARD damper.
    99% of the Electricians out there and controls are not a good combination.
    Are you allowed input in to how he's doing his job?
    Check the Spec, is there a separate controls/ electrical section? If so, go to the GC and plead your case.
    And mention to that GC that 120 Volt control means a WHOLE LOT MORE conduit which means a higher job cost/electricians work....BS when 24 volt is available that can be ran thru bridle rings (unless the spec calls for all conduit, even low voltage).
    jogas

  4. #4
    Exactly, I can do the job for a fraction of the price. I figured about $1,350 for all the 24v ARD dampers, Qty8 16" 90* elbows, the upsized transformer, and the control wires(18gauge).
    These electricians understand how they can make it work but I don't think they'll be competitive. I'm already on the fricken payroll. I hope this becomes clear. I just had a thought.
    On the other hand these dampers are being used in a server room as fire dampers. Well actually to seal the room so that the halon system can work correctly. It might be required to run conduit in this situation. I'll need to know if someone makes 120v 16" round dampers (power open). spring return.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    290
    Gotta love people that want to do it a silly way. I know Johnson Controls makes 120v two way actuators. I'm not sure you'll find a damper packed with a 120v actuator that you can order like you could a 24v model. I would say buy the damper and then find whatever brand 120v actuator you like. I would assume the other big names make them besides JCI.
    Either way good luck.
    "Yeah I can figure out whats wrong with it, but you were here first and there isn't room for two, plus it's cold up here, I'll be in the van"

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    107
    For the application your discussing I think you should use a proper leakage rated damper. This link will take you a low leakage fire smoke damper that is available with a 120V actuator spring return to close (or 24 volt). UL requires actuators to be factory installed.
    I am assuming this is really to be instaled in a fire rated wall??
    look for model 1290FS when you open this.
    http://www.nailor.com/OnlineCatalogs/CAC-06/CACGFSD.pdf

    If we consider Halon to be toxic? I thought it was for some reason, you should probably check this with the halon supplier. You may need some sort of bubble tight damper. Custom model 1997 also from Nailor. Ruskin also makes really good dampers.
    Using a cheap zone damper for this application just doesn't sit right with me???

  7. #7
    120 Volt actuators were used alot years ago. Barber coleman for example.
    Most actuators and control systems use 10 vdc or 4-20ma. Most likely from the sound of the price this is a residential or light commercial job.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    8

    120v actuators

    Hey Greenheck has a 120/240 volt damper that draws 0.5 amps. Check their site. I believe it is www.greenheck.com. Maybe this will help

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Jax Fl.
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    1,943
    Quote Originally Posted by nik99 View Post
    For the application your discussing I think you should use a proper leakage rated damper. This link will take you a low leakage fire smoke damper that is available with a 120V actuator spring return to close (or 24 volt). UL requires actuators to be factory installed.
    I am assuming this is really to be instaled in a fire rated wall??
    look for model 1290FS when you open this.
    http://www.nailor.com/OnlineCatalogs/CAC-06/CACGFSD.pdf

    If we consider Halon to be toxic? I thought it was for some reason, you should probably check this with the halon supplier. You may need some sort of bubble tight damper. Custom model 1997 also from Nailor. Ruskin also makes really good dampers.
    Using a cheap zone damper for this application just doesn't sit right with me???
    I agree with the above. It takes a special damper with tight seals/fast closing actuator, unless the Halon fill level is only to the server room ceiling and the dampers are above the ceiling.

    We have used 120 volt actuators, 24 volt actuators powered by individual 110V X 24V transformers at each damper and also 277V X 24V transformers at each damper.
    Make sure the transformers have an internal circuit breaker.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    5,491
    Try this one. At a hotel in Wisconsin an electrician had 24v available to a 120 v damper motor so he took a 24v transformer and tied the 24v wires to it and expected to drive the damper with it. Ya, electricians and controls. So much for theory.
    Tracers work both ways.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Jax Fl.
    Posts
    1,943
    I have a stepdown transformer at my shop that I feed backward to test run 460 volt electronic cabinet coolers.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,321
    If these are being used as "fire dampers" like you state they must have a UL listing and be provided with factory mounted actuators. Talk to your local fire marshal before quoting on regular old dampers as the Ul tag usually ads quite a bit of freight to the project.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern, CA
    Posts
    520
    ^^^^ On the mark

    Its not toxic, but it displaces the oxygen in the room, and once the oxygen's gone the fire and anybody in there's lights go out.

    I agree with the above. It takes a special damper with tight seals/fast closing actuator, unless the Halon fill level is only to the server room ceiling and the dampers are above the ceiling.
    Around here they use a lot of 110 volt, power open/ spring close. Guess they don't want to depend on a small transformer to hold it open. And power open so either the fire system, or the fire itself kills the power and it closes by the spring. Most spring dampers I've ever seen are pretty quick, fire rated or not.


    I was also present one time at a full function test, and it was wild. When the halon was set off, the drywall backed (heavy) T-bar ceiling tiles were fluttering and bouncing in and out of the T-bar, like leaves in a hurricane. And the window we were watching through was flexing like crazy. Forget about breathing, getting caught in there when it went off you'd be lucky if you could stay on your feet, or keep from getting slammed into a wall.

    Don't know if you have a Haldeman supply near you, that's where I'd try first.

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