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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    SE GA at the moment
    Posts
    36

    Beware of digital gadgets

    Not to discourage the vendor who supplied the FREE TOOL offered, but its misuse could be dangerous. It basically does all the thinking for you, and what will inevitably happen is it will be given to under qualified service techs in place of formal training. (I can think of three A/C Company owners right off that would have no problem sending a filter-changer out with one of these to save $10 an hour over a trained mechanic.)

    From my read of this tool, it doesn't do anymore than my father taught me how to do with a standard set of gauges, a thermocouple, and a pocket full of Sporlan Quick Reference cards. All it is doing is enabling less trained personnel to go out and make dangerous decisions. The trick has ALWAYS been to get the field personnel to not short-cut and take the time to get ALL of the system's operating readings.

    My first service manager used to always say "Don't call me until you have your FLA, your running A, your high and low P's, your air on's and off's of both coils, your superheat and your subcooling T's." He didn't get called a lot as the technicians usually realized the problem while taking ALL of the readings.

    Just my humble opinion

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern, CA
    Posts
    520
    It may be humble but is 100% correct. Technology has produced some marvelous things, but has also cost us in the process. The kids growing up with technology are being allowed to depend on it to the point of being handicapped without it. The most common example being at a broken cash register, and the person behind it can't make change. Maybe computers and calculators should be linked to cars, get a licence for all when old enough to have gotten the basics down first. Instead of a tool computers are turning into interactive TV. Lets get rid of them all! Except for mine.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mixing oil and fire with a big spoon.
    Posts
    4,388
    all this may be true, however, i am going for the accuracy and durability of the product. smartest tech in the world can't fix jack without accurate readings...although he could probably get close!

    good luck.
    When I am late for work, I usually make up for it by leaving early.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    2,801
    Please.......... I'd rather see someone get good accurate information. I don't care what tool they use to get it. Using old school tools is fine but it doesn't make you somehow understand the results better. Why would you assume someone that would make that investment isnt also getting the training to interpret the numbers?
    ___________________________________________


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    West Palm Beach
    Posts
    172
    I bought my first digital tool last year, I like it well enough but think I need to go back to school to figure out how to work all of the parameters on it.

    I felt like a complete novice using it for a good while, either I am completely stupid, (could be) or you had better know what you are doing with this new technology or you could make some serious mistakes with just the push of a button.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    70

    Old Or New

    Does it matter if you used old fashion way or new digital tools if you don t understand what you looking for or what that equipment should be doing it doesn t matter which way you need to be trained properly on what you looking for and how to use tools all comes back to training and isn't that what we all did starting out in trade learn from mistakes working with a tech until he taught you enough that you understood what you did wrong it all comes back to training new tools are cool and can help make getting numbers easier and faster but it you dont know the reason you doing it your not a techand need more training im soory this in kinda long just venting
    Im a technician not a magician

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    SE GA at the moment
    Posts
    36
    Quote Originally Posted by jayguy View Post
    all this may be true, however, i am going for the accuracy and durability of the product. smartest tech in the world can't fix jack without accurate readings...although he could probably get close!

    good luck.
    Don't assume that because digital is any easier to read it is more accurate. To get to that readout your signal has to travel through at least two transducers (1 to convert your measurement to an electric voltage and 1 to change it from an analog to a digital signal) both have error factors.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    SE GA at the moment
    Posts
    36
    Quote Originally Posted by DPSwitch View Post
    Please.......... I'd rather see someone get good accurate information. I don't care what tool they use to get it. Using old school tools is fine but it doesn't make you somehow understand the results better. Why would you assume someone that would make that investment isnt also getting the training to interpret the numbers?
    It is based on being a part owner of a mechanical contracting firm in one of the worst trained areas (Central Florida) for 15 years. I have had to weed through too numerous applications from supposedly "experienced technicians" that could not define such basics as Latent Heat, Super-heat, and Sub-cooling. They all had toys galore and new how to hook them up, but let something not be on that screen and they were lost. The very last one I fired, put 60# of R22 in a ten ton package unit and still didn't have any idea that the reason he had a low back pressure was a bad TX valve.

  9. #9

    Talking Seen this before

    Quote Originally Posted by diesel65 View Post
    I bought my first digital tool last year, I like it well enough but think I need to go back to school to figure out how to work all of the parameters on it.

    I felt like a complete novice using it for a good while, either I am completely stupid, (could be) or you had better know what you are doing with this new technology or you could make some serious mistakes with just the push of a button.
    I have had this problem myself...Just checking things out with my newest digital gadget, and see a value (temp or pressure) that doesn't make sense. Turns out I pushed a wrong button. What scares me are the untrained techs who are turned loose with new technology and not enough common sense or experience to know when their data is bad. It may sound archaic, but I still believe that new techs should be trained with older equipment. Not to "pay their dues", but to force them to learn the concepts necessary to work on equipment without the assistance of a microprocessor based "troubleshooter".

    (Just my personal opinion) Regards, hvac_controlnut

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    SE GA at the moment
    Posts
    36
    Quote Originally Posted by hvac_controlnut View Post
    I have had this problem myself...Just checking things out with my newest digital gadget, and see a value (temp or pressure) that doesn't make sense. Turns out I pushed a wrong button. What scares me are the untrained techs who are turned loose with new technology and not enough common sense or experience to know when their data is bad. It may sound archaic, but I still believe that new techs should be trained with older equipment. Not to "pay their dues", but to force them to learn the concepts necessary to work on equipment without the assistance of a microprocessor based "troubleshooter".

    (Just my personal opinion) Regards, hvac_controlnut
    EXACTLY! To service something you should know how it works, not just have a set of numbers memorized.

    The best thing my father did for my brother and I was to teach us everything in temperatures not pressures. That mind-set enabled us to easily convert between refrigerants.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Bangor Maine
    Posts
    101
    Quote Originally Posted by retired1 View Post
    Don't assume that because digital is any easier to read it is more accurate. To get to that readout your signal has to travel through at least two transducers (1 to convert your measurement to an electric voltage and 1 to change it from an analog to a digital signal) both have error factors.

    I have tested my YJ DRSA against everything as other tech say they are not worth the money. Analogs and burdon tubes get worn. On critical charge systems we owe it to the customer to do our best every time.
    I also agree that new tech need to know how to do it the old way. These analizers are only as good as the tech using them. If you dont understand what information is in front of you digital or analog doesnt make a difference.

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