Furnace Installation Quality or Safety Issues? (w/ Photos)

[skeletor]

I am helping family members who recently had a new furnace / cooling equipment installed during a house renovation post hurricane Sandy. The HVAC installer was selected by the general contractor. Furnace location is unheated garage. House location is east central New Jersey.

I have some safety concerns, are these warranted?

1.) Gas line connected via flex hose to a black pipe that is solely supported by furnace (see last picture, below). Drip leg is at the flex hose end of the black pipe, rather than the furnace end.

2.) Furnace sits on plastic water pan. No exit drain for the pan, but it does have a water safety switch wired in series with the R terminal. Is a plastic pan ok for a vertical gas furnace?

3.) The condensation line pitches gradually towards the trap/unit for the first 30 inches. Water does drain outside, but the standing water in this first section of pipe causes condensation to drip from the outside of the pipe. This will need to be fixed before winter and the garage freezes. The book says 1/4" per foot slope away from furnace.

4.) Gas water heater installed on plastic drip pan. Should this be metal? I'm not sure what NJ code says. I believe the pan drain should be routed outside instead of the floor.

5.) The HVAC installers seem to have made several more mistakes, including leaving the filter out after install and the heating system ran during winter/spring this while the house was under construction--lots of dust in the air. The installer claims to have cleaned out ducts, but the blower fins seem to have dust on them, who knows what the a/c coil looks like. They also have the control wires exiting furnace through a bare knockout, no strain relief or rubber grommet to protect the metal edges of the hole.

I would like to help make sure everything is done right, but need guidance to tell them.

Thanks!

[snupytcb]

whats with the pipe dope?!!!! man. is this natural gas or lp?. I have never seen a furnace in a pan unless it was horizontal. is that bvent or just single wall vent pipe? the gas line needs to be secured for sure.

[kdean1]

Ditch the 3M Filtrete air filter because it restricts air flow even when new. Use a 1" fiberglass filter.

[kdean1]

Most furnace manufacturers prohibit using the equipment during construction because of the dirt involved. Such use can void the warranty. Leaving the filter out only makes it worse, much worse.

Another issue is foil tape on the furnace vent pipe. The tape is not rated for that and the joints on the pipe do not need to be sealed.

The drip leg on the gas pipe should be on the last vertical drop, in this case at the furnace. The black pipe should be supported. Why did they not use hard pipe all the way?

The furnace drain pan does not need to be metal unless local code requires it. The pan is well below the burner compartment so heat is not an issue. It is good that they installed a wet switch to stop operation if a spill occurs.

[Bazooka Joe]

It's interesting that they sealed the duct connections but the air filter does not have a panel covering it , ( seems counterproductive ) so some air is bypassing the air filter and will collect on the indoor coil over time causing the coil to freeze and less air flow across the coil. The second picture shows the vertical gas pipe being increased to a larger size and going backwards then forwards then decreasing to a smaller size before going to the water heater. Along with the other issues mentioned by others and yourself this job looks like another high quality install by HOBO Mechanical .

[Bazooka Joe]

Hopefully they checked the gas pressure at the main gas valve and set it to manufacture spec. at the very least.

[hearthman]

Furnace:
must have grommet for wire penetration into cabinet
condensate must drain away 1/4"per LF to discharge
gas shutoff must be within 6ft.
sediment trap must be at appliance
gas piping not supported
flex can be used only at the appliance within 6' of unit
foil tape not needed or approved for use on vent connector
tape on patch in return must be imprinted UL181-a/b-FX
filter slot cannot be open
gas flex connectors 3ft max.

Water heater:
must be in metal pan, which must drain to outdoors or approved DVW drain 6-24" above finished floor or grade. Pan can be non-metallic only if listed to CSA LC3
platform probably grossly undersized to support the weight of the WH, much less the furnace, too

Pics of vent connectors and common vent?
Platform 18" above garage floor? What input BTU rating on WH? If 75 BTU/hr. or less, it must be FVIR design.

[skeletor]

Thanks for the responses! This helps build a case for fixes to be made. My family member did protest upon noticing the missing filter during the construction phase and the HVAC installer said "oh that's not a problem, we cleaned the ducts. (What about fan, coil, heat exchanger?)

I've never seen pipe dope on black iron before. Is it a problem? I'm looking for a reason to point to if it is a bad idea.

Good call with the foil tape on the vents. I've attached another picture that shows all of the venting where foil was used. I'm not sure if this is b vent.

There is a huge gap where the filter is inserted, allowing garage air to be sucked in, which needs to be fixed. The only good news there is that there is enough room to have a 4" filter installed, but that is another step.

The fuel is natural gas.

Regarding the pan under the water heater, where can I find the requirement for a metal pan? I just want something firm to point to for the rules--it will be a battle to get that changed underneath a water heater that is plumbed.

[garychance]

Pipe dope always go's on black iron, i'm sure he meant the mass amount of it.

[snupytcb]

it kind of looks like b vent off the water heater. check the local codes about the pan material. pipie dope is fine, if it approved of course, but we don't like to use that much. It looks like he used a 6" paint brush. lol. that venting is ugly. I do see a piece of return that didn't get sealed right above water heater vent.

[skeletor]

One other question:

Before hurricane damage, the emergency furnace shut off switch was near the door to the house, so one could shut down the equipment without stepping into the garage. The new emergency furnace shut off is on the opposite side of the garage from the house door, so if one wants to shut down the furnace, you need to enter the garage, walk past the furnace you want to turn off and then find the switch on the far wall.

Is this proper? Are there any requirements to have the shut off switch where it is easily accessible to the house? The switch is visible from the furnace in either location. I have no idea why the electricians moved it when the house was re-wired.

By the way, the "garage" is not used for vehicles, only for storage and workbench activities. So there shouldn't be any carbon monoxide issues, except what the water heater and furnace generate.

Thanks again!

[snupytcb]

i think if we put them in a garage here it needs to be put in a sealed room. the codes don't care if you don't use the garage for cars or not it has the potential.

[S.T.Ranger]

One other question:

Before hurricane damage, the emergency furnace shut off switch was near the door to the house, so one could shut down the equipment without stepping into the garage. The new emergency furnace shut off is on the opposite side of the garage from the house door, so if one wants to shut down the furnace, you need to enter the garage, walk past the furnace you want to turn off and then find the switch on the far wall.

Is this proper? Are there any requirements to have the shut off switch where it is easily accessible to the house? The switch is visible from the furnace in either location. I have no idea why the electricians moved it when the house was re-wired.

By the way, the "garage" is not used for vehicles, only for storage and workbench activities. So there shouldn't be any carbon monoxide issues, except what the water heater and furnace generate.

Thanks again!

Just two comments: first, builders will often request systems be started up before construction is finished, such as in winter, where it helps concerning sheetrock finishing and painting (freezing can create major issues), and while I always start with "This is a bad idea, because regardless of whether you tell the sheetrockers, painters, hardwood installers not to run the system while sanding...they always do," and am usually told something along the lines of "Oh I'll make sure they don't," we come back to find the system dusted.

But what are you going to do? Tell the builder no? Not likely. While the dusting is not good for the equipment, and contributes to problems that can arise, the responsibility falls more on the builder and his other subs...not the HVAC contractor. Probably most contractors get the request for heat (and even AC) to be turned on, and most likely warn them about running them during construction, particularly trades involving sanding. You could say "Nope, not going to do it," but I doubt few do. I have only one guy that listens to me on that, lol.

And there was one house that actually burned down because of a propane heater being used (which used to be standard practice back in the day, but not seen as much any more).

The second would be about the disconnect being "near the door to the house, so one could shut down the equipment without stepping into the garage." The furnace has built in safeties which help ensure that it doesn't explode, so having the disconnect in a displaced location is not something that I would view as necessary. Being in a garage, it is likely the panel is in sight of the furnace which means no disconnect is necessary, but, if one is installed, better to have it by the furnace rather than somewhere where someone might inadvertently turn off the furnace trying to find a light switch, lol.

So it is likely the electrician may have felt he was correcting the previous location, if he was aware of where it used to be.

And okay, maybe one more:

By the way, the "garage" is not used for vehicles, only for storage and workbench activities. So there shouldn't be any carbon monoxide issues, except what the water heater and furnace generate.

installation and procedure of a system in a garage does not revolve around intended use, but the location itself. They might not use it to park cars, but if the house is sold someone else may (though it has been my experience that only about 10% of people can actually get a car in their garage, lol).

The duct-work would have to be sealed to avoid infiltration of potentially harmful substances, which would include those produced by chemicals stored in what is usually a storage space. I had some customers that kept fertilizers and poisons in their utility room, and I recommended the remove them. The woman died from brain tumors and the man of cancer. I would not be surprised if what they stored in the utility room contributed.

[hearthman]

The metal pan requirement comes from the IRC P2801.5

"except what the water heater and furnace generate". You sound as if those are negligible. A gas draft hood equipped WH is the most dangerous appliance in a home. You have one common vented with a CAT I furnace which is triple hazardous.

It looks like a hackasaurus did the venting. You don't transition from B-vent to single walled and you certainly don't do it by using foil tape, which btw is not allowed on the vent connectors. What does the chimney or common vent look like. I can't wait and how far laterally and vertical vent rise?

[skeletor]

I'm looking to see how to hold contractor accountable for these issues, thanks!

Update:
I took a peek at the outdoor unit. (see photo below) Note the angles on the refrigerant lines, where they were tied into the new unit. Are these just ugly or will they cause operational concerns?

I noticed the old unit had electric lines entering at the top, while the new unit (also Am Std) now has them entering at the bottom, which may be why the power line looks twisted.

The unit is American Standard Gold Air Conditioner, 2.0 tons.

Thanks again!

[vstech]

The picture you posted of the furnace pan shows a drain connection open... Kinda defeats the purpose of the float switch...

The vent from the furnace will never pass inspection, so I'm SURE this wasn't permitted or inspected... Call code enforcement. They can push penalties on the "contractor"

[tinknocker service tech]

looks like the gas flex flare connection was doped also and is against code there should never be pipe dope on that connection.
unless code change the flue should be b vent all the way and maybe a short single wall connection at the units
there should also be a steel pole in front of the units so a car can not run into them