ReplyTwo likely scenarios...
Crankcase heater not working or not installed
-or-
Overcharged system
Neither can be fixed by a homeowner.
Regular Guest
I recently had a Trane XL16i & paired air handler installed.
When the unit starts up - especially when it is cold - it makes a loud noise for about 5-10 seconds. During normal running it is quiet. The noise is even louder and lasts longer when it goes into defrost mode.
Unfortunately it is directly below a bedroom window and wakes me every time.
The dealer replaced the heat pump under warranty because they agreed it was not normal, but the replacement does the same thing. Now they claim the noise is normal. I have seen some attribute it to the reversing valve and others say it is the scrolling compressor.
Does anyone have any ideas as to the problem or ways to mitigate the problem?
--Sleepless--
Professional Member*
Two likely scenarios...
Crankcase heater not working or not installed
-or-
Overcharged system
Neither can be fixed by a homeowner.
Perhaps you should have read the instructions before calling.
Professional Member
Was under bedroom window the only option you had to install it? I try not to install equipment under bedroom windows due to that fact of keeping you up at night but sometimes that may be your option.
Regular Guest
The previous unit was within a few feet, but it was not as tall and was under an overhang. The old unit - a builder grade unit - did not make any noise other than the normal fan running.
Does anyone here have experience with the Trane XL16i? If so, is it normal to make a much louder noise on startup and in defrost mode?
I looked through the installer guide for the unit and did not see a "crankcase heater" mentioned or shown in the illustrated diagram. What would it look like? Is it an option or normally installed? I'm in Maryland, near DC, so we don't get very bad winters.
The techs and the installation manager (who don't need to look at a map to get to my house by this point..) have checked the pressure every time and indicate it is OK.
Professional Member
we have installed 4 16i HP's this winter, all quiet on startup, is the lineset touching the rimjoist as it goess through the wall, possibly amplifying the refrigerant flow? I have had that happen on a few 410 installs before, just had to tweak the lineset to remove pressure against the wood, although I would leave any "tweaking" to the contractor, kinked copper gets expensive if you do that yourself.
You can't fix stupid
Regular Guest
They used the same lines that the previous unit used after a cleaning and pressure test (allegedly). I know my limitations, so I wouldn't try anything myself, but knowledge is power. If I can suggest this to the contractor and resolve the problem, I am happy.
The lines go through cinder block, not wood. The noise is definitely from the unit, but I cannot pinpoint where. The techs can place the unit into defrost mode manually and it is really loud then. My understanding is that with heat pumps the defrost mode reverses the flow to use the heat normally directed inside, to the outside to defrost the heat pump. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) This would then tend to lend credence to the reversing value being the culprit. It is not a pressure type noise though. Although they completely replaced the whole heat pump, it still occurs. I guess it is possible for there to be a batch of bad units/valves..
What I would really like to do is find someone who has had this model or been around one extensively when the unit would go into defrost mode (or was placed in manually using the circuit board) to find out if they experience this noise as well. If all of them do this, then the cure would be different than if there were bad parts. Not knowing anyone else who has this unit does not give me a basis to compare it to.
Professional Member*
the 16i is one of tranes most quiet units if it is noisy there is a problem
New Guest
If it's a loud piercing kind of noise, the solution is to either pinch or remove the factory process stubs.
Professional Member
I would wager to say a call to Trane would get the desired response
I have more experience in this field than I care to divulge...(might make me look old) but I can admit to this...I have had scenarios that I could not figure out ( I know hard to swallow that
You paid good money for the system...demand what you paid for.
Professional Member*
What is the model # of the indoor/outdoor equipment?Originally Posted by wyliecoyote
Line size and length?
Did the service company leave you with service tickets showing the refrigerant pressures and temperatures?
Your unit has a c/c heater from factory.
How long have you had the system installed, and do we know if it is wired correctly?
Regular Guest
The unit is a Trane XL16i, model 4TWX6, paired with a Trane 4TEE3F air handler.
The heat pump (entire unit) has been replaced, and the lines have been replaced. They claim the refrigerant levels are correct.
It continues to make the noises described and it now 'freezes' up occasionally. By this I mean that the thermostat shows that the unit should be running, the heat pump fan is running, but nothing is coming out of the air vents. Checking the air handler I find that the fan is not running the the unit is covered with condensation. I have to kill the power for a while and turn it back on to get it working again.
The installer is now claiming that all scroll compressors make this noise and said that Copeland engineers said it is 'normal'. I have never heard a heat pump make noises like this before.
Here are samples the sounds it makes, usually at night, when it comes on.
http://www.xybertech.com/heatpump/sample1.wma
http://www.xybertech.com/heatpump/sample2.wma
http://www.xybertech.com/heatpump/sample3.wma
http://www.xybertech.com/heatpump/sample4.wma
ANY help would be appreciated!!
Professional Member
Is it a 4TEE fan coil??
It's NOT the BRAND,it's the company that installs it!!!!!
Regular Guest
I believe it is.. The air handler complete model number is: 4TEE3F31A1000A
Global Moderator
Where is the air handler? Attic? If so I bet I know what it is. If not, then I'd wonder about overcharge. Obviously slugging.
That's an unloading scroll. Nordyne is the only one I know who puts CCH on scrolls. But it could help.
Regular Guest
The air handler is in the basement about 10 feet from the heat pump, which is outside of course.
Professional Member*
Flooded start.
Hmmm...
That was my answer last winter.
Perhaps you should have read the instructions before calling.
Regular Guest
The unit was replaced since last winter and also moved.
What does 'Flooded Start' mean? Something I can tell the installer.
The sounds are not 'normal' as they have tried to tell me? I don't think they are but I wanted people who have installed them to give an opinion..
THANX!
Member
What does 'Flooded Start' mean? Something I can tell the installer
the refrigerant migrates to the coldest point.
Professional Member*
sounds like a refrigerant migration problem. LLSV mite cure this loud noise on start-up
Two Hydrogen atoms met one day. One said to the other "I've lost my electron". The second said "Are you sure?" The first said "Yes, I'm positive".
Regular Guest
I did a search, but could not locate what LLSV stands for..
Is this noise (sound file links posted previously) something unique to scroll compressors or just Trane scrolls? My understanding is that Trane uses a modified Copeland.
My installer is big in my area and have had a lot of people look at it. I wont mention their name because I want a resolution not point fingers. They have offered to remove it and let me go with something completely different.
Is this noise indicative of a Scroll? Should I go with a reciprocating compressor? I just want this nightmare to be over with..
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