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  1. #1
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    Jan 2008
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    Building Shadow objects from XIF

    Any of you ever made their own shadow objects ? I've got a problem with some lon devices I want to integrate to R2 station and being able to build a shadow would be a solution to my trouble.

    Devices are FX Field controllers, custom programmed.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
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    23

    Hmm Custom Shadow Object

    ctremblay, I have never tried to make my own shadow object from a xif file.

    Have you tried using the dynamic device and commisioning the controller with that? If your using r2 you should find it in the local library under tridiumx -> lonworks -> devices

    Once you create one and commision the device you maybe able to copy the shadow block from the station to your local library and use it to create stations offline.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Scranton, PA 18509
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    55
    Quote Originally Posted by ctremblay View Post
    Any of you ever made their own shadow objects ? I've got a problem with some lon devices I want to integrate to R2 station and being able to build a shadow would be a solution to my trouble.

    Devices are FX Field controllers, custom programmed.

    Just send it to Tridium and they will make it into a shadow odject for you! There is no way to make it yourself easily in R2. You could also just use a "DynamicDevice" in R2 and "Upload" the config of the LON device into it! I haven't done R2 work in about 2 years, but I think if you go into the Lon service highlight the new device, do match, then upload...

    Thankx
    Jamie

  4. #4
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    The way the Lon pattern is done into the FX Field Controllers make the dynamic device useless... It doesn't detect any nci... so you're stuck with only nvo's and if you're lucky, some nvi's...

    Into AX, we use tha typ, fnt, fpt and xif to make a LNML file that make a kinf of shadow with all variables... that works perfectly, but with R2...

    It would be fine to send my file to Tridium... but I can hardly imagine sending them the same files 20 times cause we're making modifications... or at each time we're doing a custom program for a client.

  5. #5
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    Jun 2007
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    Scranton, PA 18509
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctremblay View Post
    The way the Lon pattern is done into the FX Field Controllers make the dynamic device useless... It doesn't detect any nci... so you're stuck with only nvo's and if you're lucky, some nvi's...

    Into AX, we use tha typ, fnt, fpt and xif to make a LNML file that make a kinf of shadow with all variables... that works perfectly, but with R2...

    It would be fine to send my file to Tridium... but I can hardly imagine sending them the same files 20 times cause we're making modifications... or at each time we're doing a custom program for a client.
    I have done a few FX15 controllers in R2, it suxs b/c you can't learn the NCIs into R2. What I had to do was create NVIs in FX Builder to adjust. It works fine doing this, you just have to make sure in Tridium that there is a Fallback set, an on device up write the values is enable...

    I attached a RTU w/ multizone damper program that I did awhile ago. Just rename the file from .pdf to .apd...
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
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    Jan 2008
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    Quebec
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    That is an interesting way of doing it... I confess I didn't think switching all to nvi... Thanks !

    But' there's only one thing I do not like about that, is the situation where the Jace crashes... you're stuck with a controller that is dependant of the network...I already have some problems with lon devices I programmed wihtout nci...

    Another point, is the network use (a processor) when you have a lot of nvi's on a device. With only one device, it shouldn't be a problem, but when you have a bunch of controllers, you need to bind all those variables, cause they are setpoints and things that must be wrote cause they are not in the EEPROM... it's very hard for the Jace to live with more than 1000 bindings (experience talks)... It could seem big, but it's easy to get that number of binding with less than 10 controllers (I always program my controllers with overrides on all I/O, PID parameters, calibration, all sertpoints, etc...)

    Finally, you're confirming what I thought, nci are not available in R2 without a custom made Shadow... What bothers me, is that we have a Lonworks device that is not "compatible" with R2... We're far from an open protocol...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    Scranton, PA 18509
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    To be honest, I have found so my reasons not to use the FX line of field controllers. I feel that JCI developed the controlers about 50% then released them to the contractors to deal w/ and BETA test the controllers for them.

    You might not know but there are so many problems (to many to list) with both the programming and lon communications for these controllers. I have used about 10 FX5 controllers and about 15 FX15 controllers. JCI has been saying that they are releasing a v2.0 software package to fix all the problems but that hasn't happened. I was told this back in May when I when to Corp. JCI to get training. I actually got a copy of the software in training but its really not supported yet!

    We have just stopped used them, there are so many companies out there both cheaper and easier to work with...

    Thankx
    Jamie

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Quebec
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    You're right about BETA testing and 50% engineered by JCI... they could have done better

    But I must say that I took the time to develop templates for each of the controllers with all I/O, overrides, PLCs and standard ways of doing things... and now, I can say it's a simple controller to program.(Starting from the template).

    The template can be directly downloaded to the FX, you have all I/O available, the display shows you everything on the controller, you can override everything from the display (a great feauture of the device compared to many others) So, it's possible to install the controller, without any sequence to test everything installed (commissionning)

    But, yes, I worked a lot to build those...and to be honest, when I see how JCI do their programs (those provided for standard app) it's a good thing that we can start over... but it's my opinion not necessary the perfect thruth.

    For us, it's a good product. A custom programmable controller, with a custom display and a good price... better in N2 though...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    1,219
    Quote Originally Posted by jczekai View Post
    We have just stopped used them, there are so many companies out there both cheaper and easier to work with...
    Thankx
    Jamie
    I agree that FX has ways to go to be used with confidence, but I really like to know what products you use that is cheaper and covers what FX range covers.
    As I would be interested in using them.
    Thanks.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    Scranton, PA 18509
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    Quote Originally Posted by amigo View Post
    I agree that FX has ways to go to be used with confidence, but I really like to know what products you use that is cheaper and covers what FX range covers.
    As I would be interested in using them.
    Thanks.
    We use all kinds of different controllers, mostly we choose by what fits application and has lon or bacnet comm on it. I didn't mean that in a bad way, the only time we have been using JCI is when we have to use the N2 comm. An we choose the UNT, VMA, and DX, just b/c they work well. Don't get me wrong these work great but JCI is basically pricing them out of the market. An the N2 protocol is super slow. I have installed thousands of UNT, VMA, and DX -- but they are very outdated.

    You just can't put all your eggs in one basket if you know what I mean. We do a lot of business using JCI, Honeywell, Tridium, & Trane. We just try not to do any controls that are proprietary anymore.

    We have been using controls from a company called "Smart Controls." There Inexpensive, easy to program, and has many options available. We have been using the ST-35ER pretty extensively b/c its about 180 bucks and "fully-programmable." We just did a resort w/ 200+ rooms and used this controller to control he FCUs in each of the rooms throughout the hotel. Actually worked out really well and intergrated them into two exsiting Trane BCU controllers via LON.

    Check em out:
    http://www.smartcontrols.com/products.html

    Thankx
    Jamie

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