Got Questions? Help Us Help You. Please Read Before Asking A Technical Question!

[DPSwitch]

Ok, there you have it - my little rant is now officially over.

I have no idea what your post is about, I ain't reading all that junk.

Now.... should I fill the sight glass er what?

[markettech]

I have no idea what your post is about

Do you need help sounding out any of the words?

Now.... should I fill the sight glass er what?

Where's my baseball bat?

[HeyBob]

Great post........it's now stuck!

[dangpgt97]

I probably spend 15-20 hours a week on this site and always look forward to reading marks posts. I rarely post on the site but I'm here all the time. Ive got a small library of refrigeration books I study and at times theres misinformation on this site. When I read marks posts I know I can fully trust them no questions asked. For someone who's a volunteer and Ive never meet he has probably made the most impact in my career so far. I also like the fact that his posts are clear, easy to understand, and takes you back a few steps to rethink what should be going on.

Well I just wanted to say thanks since Ive taken so much from his knowledge and field experience.
A little humor... Picture mark as the guy running around but fixing refrigeration equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVKDQgT_b-Y

Enjoy the Packer game today mark!!!!

[icehouse]

Excuse my ignorance, but can somebody explain to me why we have people in the trade on here listed as regular members ?
Yes I know I was a bad boy and gave info to a DIY as I did not bother to check him out.
In my opinion there is a lot of technical information that is given here. Maybe this should be moved to the pro section.

[markettech]

I probably spend 15-20 hours a week on this site and always look forward to reading marks posts. I rarely post on the site but I'm here all the time. Ive got a small library of refrigeration books I study and at times theres misinformation on this site. When I read marks posts I know I can fully trust them no questions asked. For someone who's a volunteer and Ive never meet he has probably made the most impact in my career so far. I also like the fact that his posts are clear, easy to understand, and takes you back a few steps to rethink what should be going on.

Well I just wanted to say thanks since Ive taken so much from his knowledge and field experience.
A little humor... Picture mark as the guy running around but fixing refrigeration equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVKDQgT_b-Y

Enjoy the Packer game today mark!!!!

Thanks for the kind words.

Just so you know, I wasn't always this way............just ask the owner of the very first company I worked for.

I busted my butt to get good at what I did. Instead of using my knowledge as a tool of the trade, I used it as a weapon.

.......Sure, I got the job done quickly, accurately......and yeah, some of the customers loved me - but I was such an arrogant ass around the shop nobody could stand me.

Guess age has a way of changing a person's perspective on life in general and this trade in particular.

Again - much thanks. It's posts like yours that make my time spent here worthwhile.

[Ice Man]

I agree with you market tech you can never have to much information

[dan wong]

[QUOTE=icehouse;1735810] Excuse my ignorance, but can somebody explain to me why we have people in the trade on here listed as regular members ?
Yes I know I was a bad boy and gave info to a DIY as I did not bother to check him out.
In my opinion there is a lot of technical information that is given here. Maybe this should be moved to the pro section.[/QUOTE

Albert Einstein said; "When one teach, two people learn"

Personally I learn a lot from peoples questioning. many of my guys ask me questions very similar to DIY. It help train me what to look for. Oh yes; my guys all graduated from refrigeration school.

[bingo_hvac]

i will venture a guess that some people like myself are just starting out ( do not consider myself a pro but do work in the refrigeration field) and did not understand how to get a pro ID -vs- a normal membership?? sorry about that..

[TB]

Start out by giving us some background information...
Along these same lines, let us know if you're a student, apprentice, journeyman, or an HVAC guy crossing over.

Okee-dokee.
I'm an HVAC guy crossing over. After about 20 years in HVAC, (steam (hi & lo psi), water boilers, nat gas, oil, chillers, cooling towers, AHU's, lotta fan coils, rooftops, controls (pneum. / DDC), with a little bit of light refrigeration (low temp. 3.5 ton/twin evaps. in one box being the biggest), ice machines, Psychrometric stuff, Heat pumps and AC's...doing installs and mostly service, I'm working now for a good commercial refrigeration outfit. As usual, I can't find the answers fast enough for me. I hate not knowing, but I hate not learning, more, but that's why I love this trade. Of the equipment I've looked at so far on this job, much of it looks very familiar--parallel racks look like big chillers, but with a few more doodads on them. Theory, is what I thrive on, so I'll probly be asking some questions on that, just as soon as I figure out what questions I need to ask to get me anywheres.

If anyone wants to throw anything my way, I'd love to tackle a few think-about-its, but till then, I'll probly be lurking, Kinda along with Markettech, (but I'll be the one scratching his head with a goofy look on his face) with the occasional dumb question blurted out.

[bryan l]

Add to that the weekly "I was contracted to take care of a supermarket and dont know anything about them" posts

For the love of the Fridge Gods stop... PLEASE

[absoair]

OK, It sounds as if being a pro in the field may not be the same as being a pro here. Being a pro here will only confirm to the pros in the field that the credentials have been obtained to be a pro here. If thats the case, I will apply for pro status here and work hard at being a pro in the field with the help of the pros here. I will also make sure that the pros here are able to place themselves beside me using the info that I give.

[Farmhand48060]

Call me farmhand, and I hope to benefit from this site. My background info 25+ years as a Journeyman industrial controls electrician, all levels from basic construction to PLC and robotics programming, including electronics trouble shooting down to component level. Instrument Tech in the USAF. I have been working as the sole Facilities Electrician -A/C repair for a Major auto company for 5 years. I have a Universal recovery card from Esco, and have worked on and repaired Industrial/commercial type units including Carrier, Mcquay,Trane, Lennox, Liebert, etc. I have done minor compressor repair on semi- hermetics, (valve plate & unloader repair). I do all of my own installations, including rigging and piping, and have changed out numerous 6DX Carrier/Carlyle type compressors.I have changed out complete condenser sections from the Old Chrysler Airtemp A/C units which were all aluminium with copper swedged brazing stubs, and up to now have not found a problem I couldn't fix. Then there is refrigeration/freezers. I must apologize for the following but I need a little direction. The freezer is a mid 90's Delfield 2 door freezer with a Copeland compressor, with 17.5 ounces of R404A, and a Sporlon CRO-4-0/50 crankcase pressure regulator. All components are mounted on top of the unit. My biggest problem, is I have never thrown the gages on a working unit to know what is a normal ballpark range for the suction and High side. The complaint is box will not pull down. Both evap fans are operating, door seals good, light is off when door is shut, heater contactor is not stuck on, compressor head pressure 175psi, and 5-10 psi temperature on suction line. The temperature of the suction line where it leaves the box is 55 degrees and box temp 65/70 F . I pumped the unit down and removed and cleaned the Crankcase regulator piston assembly, reassembled ,evacuated, and recharged the unit. No real change in suction pressure. Pumped down again, removed liquid line filter,( checked both cap tubes for obstruction) and replaced with new one of same size. Removed CPR (crankcase pressure reg) piston, evaced unit again (-500microns) and recharged unit. Suction still at 10-5 psi. Box temp 72 F -started to pull down when I left tonight ( 20 degrees in 30 minutes) Box was empty,
(30+ approx. cu ft) If you would be so kind as to direct the constructive critisism to Removed I would be grateful. Also any books that you could reccomend, as I read as much as possible cause really "knowledge is power".




Please put your email in your profile

[Dad]

This is for all of you guys that can't figure out how to become a Pro here.

It's as easy as dropping your gages off a ladder and a lot less painful to the pocketbook.

It's FREE and here's what you get when you become a Pro member... SMARTER !

There are areas that you can't see if you are not a registered pro. You get to join in with the real conversations with your peers about equipment you work on and some you don't, you get access to our Educational Forum that took two years to develop, tons of man hours and a lot of beer. Trust me, you don't want to miss out. You can only see the outline of the private areas. Aren't you even curious as to what's inside? It doesn't take but a few minutes of your time to register. NO registration, NO access.

To become a registered Pro member then Click here AND follow the instructions.

But... don't send it to the Membership committee without meeting the criteria such as having 15 posts under your belt or the committee will get all pissy at you and may start believing in Santa Clause again.

[tcape]

This time I'm observing the rules!


My Name is Tony, I'm 47 years old, born and raised in Hanover, PA

My background-

1979-1983- maintenance at a golf course
1983-1987- maintenance in a foundry- messed back up, needed surgery, end of foundry career.
1987-1989- landed job as installer helper at a Gettysburg oil company. Worked my way up to lead installer. While I was there I worked with a guy(he was my helper!) he was a service mechanic who moved up to the area from DC. While we were on install jobs, we would finish
early and he'd teach me electricity basics. He had an opportunity to get a service manager position in Hanover at a Heating and Cooling company and he told me he thought I would make a good service mechanic and would I be interested in changing jobs with him. I agreed and thus began my career as an HVAC service tech.

1989-1990- My service career started here and I left when they looked like they were going to go out of business. The owner was taking bear hunting trips and we had to gas the trucks with our money....

1990-1995- This company(Regal) is where I got most of my experience in the HVAC trade. I started out just working on heat and air, but I got bored with it and the company did commercial plumbing, so I was helping on a job at Hardees one time and they had a refrigerator problem. I told them I would like to look at it and they told me to go ahead! It was low on charge, I ran to the supply house for a jug of r12, charged it back up and it worked! From then on I was a sponge. I read everything I could get my hands on, went to
classes, etc. By 1994 I was really pretty good at it, but I was the only one in the company who could do it, so I could not go on vacations or anything. I convinced them to let me train another HVAC tech(the comapny had 3). I trained him and when I left that company in 1995, he went on to start his own heating cooling and refrigeration company(Keeney Cooling
Heating and Refrigeration) and is still going today, in fact I sub work from him now sometimes(not at that part of the story yet).

1995-1997- Tired of driving back and forth from York, I got a job in Hanover with a local Lennox dealer/plumbing company- while there, I met another guy who had just graduated from a school called RRETS. Him and I toyed with the idea of going into business together, and while we were employed there we started doing refrigeration work, figuring we weren't violating any company policies(they did not do refrigeration). After about a year of doing refrigeration on the side, we had bought a van together and things were going good.... till we both got phone calls to come back to shop after our last job of the day. We both got canned that day.

I wanted to go into business, but the other guy had just bought a house and needed a regular paycheck, so he went to work for another company.It should be noted that the guy I was working with who I had taught a good bit of refrigeration stuff to, wound up going into business for himself in 1999 and had a very good thing going for about 5-7 years and then he started getting a bad rep for fixing refrigeration problems for about a week and then not
going back to fix them properly....That's a whole 'nother story!

1998-1999- self employed for about 6 months, then I decided to work for the guy who started his own business(Keeney), While on an install for Keeney, was working with a guy doing the plumbing at this house and he told me his girlfriend was the executive director of Computer Services in Harrisburg, and might I be interested(he knew I was playing with computers as a hobby and was looking for a change). I told him I was interested and would up driving back and for to Harrisburg for the next 7 years.

1999-2006- Worked for Senate Democratic Computer Services, we supported the computers and servers for all the democratic senators across the state of PA. I started out as a hardware tech and worked my way up to network admin(one of 3).... Why would I leave a job like this?
Sometimes I still ask myself this. This was one of the few jobs I actually got up early to go to.... I had so many laptops and PC's and gizmos to play with I was never bored!

Unfortunately, all good things have to come to and it just so happened the senator who ran our show, Fumo(D) was being investigated by the FBI and two of the guys I worked with wound up getting indicted for doing their jobs. They were instructed by the senator to destroy email and they did and then the FBI said no-no!. At this point I was in charge of wiping hard drives when the users messed up their computers and reloading them as well as deploying
applications across the network to their computers at their remote offices across the state. A mandate came down from above that we were no longer allowed to wipe any hard drives. When a user messed up their machine and we could not fix it, we had to remove their hard drive and load up a new one, saving the old one. It started getting really scary there, so I decided to get back out of that business before something bad happened and was offered a job as service manager by the guy that I got fired with several years before.

2006-2007- Long story short, this guy started a good business, had lots of work, 15-20 guys and did not know how to run his business and would not let me do it for him, so told him I would just go back to being a service mechanic for him.(Till I found something else to do)

His business is currently floundering and I can see the day when his doors are gonna close, or he will be back to a 2 or 3 man operation to stay profitable, as long as he isn't running service calls(he has a bad rep in this town)

2007-2008- My ex brother in law's step dad had an HVAC business(1 man) and he wondered if I would be interested in being partners with him, to take over that business, as his step dad was going to retire soon. I said OK and they wound up being a big mistake, as he is a jerk and only needed me for service, he only knew installs. He ran the business and I felt more
like an employee.....


2008-present- I started my own business October of last year, while still in the partnership. February 2009, the partnership ended.

If you actually read this far, I'm impressed!

Here I am.... I am rusty... it used to be 12/22/502 and sometimes 500....

Please excuse me if I sound stupid in my upcoming posts....While I did run refrigeration service in 1999 and 2006-2007, I did not do enuf to get a grip on all the little tips and tricks and things that you used to be able to get a way with but now can't with the new refrigerants.


Please take it easy on me while I get up to speed.

Thanks,

Tony

[icehouse]

The main reason that "Markettech" stareted this thread is to many store owners were asking information that is reserved for the people who make their living servicing, not the people in industry that are seeking assistance.
If I can be of assistance e mail me (in profile).

[boom]

It's an ongoing phenomenon - one which appears needs revisiting once again.

You guys that are requesting technical help - especially if you're new to the forum may want to read this over.

If you want us to give you advice, we need A LOT of information!!

I've been thinking about this today so now you have to suffer through it.


Start out by giving us some background information. If this is one of your firsts posts on this site, give us a real brief heads up as to what you do for a living. End users try to pull information out of us so it is nice to know who you are right out of the gate. Kinda eliminates the mini courtship dance we have to do in order to feel you out.

Along these same lines, let us know if you're a student, apprentice, journeyman, or an HVAC guy crossing over. By doing this you give us the heads up on how much technical jargon we can pound down your throat without losing you entirely. It also gives us a starting point with regards to how much you know about refrigeration vs. how much WE THINK you know......filling out your profile helps here too.

Chances are whatever piece of equipment you're working on, you know well enough to remember what the call for service was, where it's located, what you've done to it, etc..............Well my friend, we haven't a clue.

I can't speak for anybody other than myself on this, but for me, in order to help you out - I need to mentally place myself on the service call with you....standing side by side with you looking it over.

If you tell me your working on a freezer with R404A - I can't see that. But if you tell me you're working on a walk-in freezer with 2 evaporators attached to a Copeland compressor which sits in the basement and has a remote condenser at ground level out behind the building - I'm there.....I'm now standing right next to you.

Next, let us know what the call for service was......was it a breaker tripping, a compressor short cycling, or maybe just a warm case temp? In any event, this type of thing is good information to have.

Ok, what did you do when you got there? Remember, I'm standing right next to you.........if you don't tell me where we're going throughout the call, I can't follow you.

Then, give us some relevant specifics. What I mean by that is superheat, voltage, pressures (high and low), fixture model #, compressor model #, and anything else you can think of. Heck, I'd rather see too much information and skim through the stuff I don't need than not have enough

Inevitably there is going to be some information we need that hasn't been posted........that's just the way it is. Don't sweat it. Chances are, when all the smoke clears, you will have several great responses to your question.

I think if you take the time to implement some of these things, a ton of frustration can be eliminated on both your end...........and ours. Nobody wants to see a thread end up in the gutter with hard feelings on both sides - that's what ARP is for.

Ok, there you have it - my little rant is now officially over.

Excellent post.. I will definitely keep this in mind. I'm a student and hoping to start working by January.

[zsmillie]

Glad I read this. I hadn't taken into account the number of vultures waiting to pick a tech's mental bones. Good read! Thanks for the info!

[alwaysAstudent]

I'm here now I guess as an apprentice. A few years ago I went to school for HVACR after working as a meat cutter for years in a large grocery chain. After completing school I became a HVACR tech for the grocery chain.

I had to start out as a pressure washer, cleaning condensers in over 100 stores for almost two yrs. Two summers, one to train, the next to train my replacement. I learned a lot by seeing a lot while doing this. Hard job, but worth it. Dealing with a vast array of technology in HVACR.

Next, I was promoted to an apprentice, working with other techs learning. I worked with guys for almost 6 months. Usually a process that takes a lot longer, but due to shortage of help, I have been thrown into it full force on my own taking care of 7 stores.

I know it's a good way to learn, but it can be a little overwhelming sometimes. I hope to fishing threw a lot of the info on this site to help me find more confidence in my abilities. I respect all info passed on by experienced techs. In this business, it's vital.

Thanks.

[voyager2]

Hello,

I recently bought an ice cream truck with an older Bally cold plate freezer. It has a top mount condensing unit with a Copeland compressor 1/2hp. the freezer went to minus 2 after my first overnight charge now goes to 0 and loses a couple degrees per hour after that... it is a 3 bay freezer with a fourth bay fridge(Closest to the compressor) There is moisture that drips down from the fitting that is into the compressor(I think the pipe from the compressor into the freezer gets frost on it. There is rust that follows the path of the moisture. In the Fridge bay there is rust on the floor on the rear half of the compartment. There is no rust in the freezer bays but this unit is supposed to go to -20. The condensing unit overall looks old with rust the compressor seems to be resealed and is loud...makes a lot of noise at start up then quiets down. I believe it has R12 but no proof...

Questions: Any thoughts as to why it won't go to -20?
How long does it usually take for one of these freezers to charge to reach -20?

Should the compressor always be running? 10 hours straight? or is it supposed to shut off?(Mine runs all night...I suppose to fight to reach temp)

Any help with diagnosis and solution would be helpful.

Thanks for you help. let me know what other info would be helpful.