what brand of geothermal heat pump to buy ?

[TC1984]

Hi
i'm thinking about getting a geothermal heat pump but have no idea what brand is best .
i think about 36,000 BTU's (3 ton ) will do the job as thats about the size furnace i have now .
it will be hooked up as Horizontal closed loop system.
i'm looking at a Mcquay Geothermal Heat Pump, FCW-1036.
any one have any good brands in mind ?
thanks

[casturbo]

The unit you will need to consider is the unit your local geothermal servicing company installs.

[tecman]

Tied for first is ClimateMaster and WaterFurnace

next I would say Florida Heat Pump (FHP)

Check out their websites and you can find local installers.

paul

[skippedover]

Drop all your researching until you select a company. Then listen to what they have to tell you about the brand they sell. Then ask us for opinions on that brand. That's you best bet. If you ask the general audience what's the best heat pump, that's like asking what's the best restaurant in town or what's the best car. You'll get as many opinions as there are responders. The brand you settle on should be the one the installing company is familiar with and recommends. We install ClimateMaster and recommend them but that doesn't mean Water Furnace or Florida Heat Pump or any other shouldn't be considered. If it does break, who's going to fix it? Where do they get the parts? Where do they get tech supplort if needed? These are the really important features of selecting a brand.

[geodude]

I agree with skipped over. My company does a lot of geothermal installs; we also install our own loops. I sell the waterfurnace line. Pick a contractor and then ASK FOR REFERENCES! Ask to see the training programs they have for their technicians. Call the references and ask the home owners the questions you asked your contractor. Brand is not as important as getting a quality installation. I would not spend the money for a geothermal installation until I talked to at least three home owners with like systems who have had them for at least three years. I would recommend you choose a contractor who is I.G.S.H.P.A certified. A contractor who has taken the time to become I.G.S.H.P.A. certified has made a financial investment and time investment to become trained. Check them out at www.igshpa.com
Again choose a well qualified contractor, brand is NOT as important as well trained technicians!!!!!

[drsmith012]

I agree with skippedover. Experience and service availability is the biggest part. As for brands in terms of efficency it is a toss up between ClimateMaster and Waterfurnace. The Waterfurnace Envision in three ton is the most efficent unit on the market but larger size Climatemasters just edge out the Waterfurnaces, but not buy that much. My contractor told me, between the two companies, it is who ever came out with the last model is whoever has the most efficent unit.

If you are going with a packaged unit you don't have to worry about the contractor properly brazing and getting the charge correct but on the other hand they have to properly design the ground loop or your system will suck. Unless they are extreamly familiar with soil conditions in the aera then a test hole should be in order. You could do this yourself.

Personally I like the Envision product. It is built much better than their previous genteration units. Just one thing to remember: It will get quieter as it gets older. The scroll compressors need some time to wear in. It is also slightly louder on low stage as well. However with everything inside it is still quieter than most every other system I have ever heard.

One last thing: GET A TWO STAGE. The price difference is effectively nothing (1.3% more for my install).

[geodude]

Nice looking install. If you change the tap in out of your return plenum to a shoe-tap you can reduce the friction loss of that fitting. In my region it is CHEAPER to install the two stage. Demand and supply here gets me a lower price!

[drsmith012]

Nice looking install. If you change the tap in out of your return plenum to a shoe-tap you can reduce the friction loss of that fitting. In my region it is CHEAPER to install the two stage. Demand and supply here gets me a lower price!

Interesting. My contractor orgionally quoted a single stage and when I called him and asked for a two stage he had to look it up. (He had just gotten pricing on Envisions and mine was the first he quoted but second he installed). He saw the price difference and before telling it to me he said yeah you want it.

What is a shoe tap? But I am fine with the way it is. There is no noise in the return and with it running on low so much the velocity is less than 172fpm in the box and about 222 fpm on high. My 28x30x2" merve 11 has been in there almost nine months and still only adds .12" wc over the coil of .28"wc (on low).

[geodude]

A shoe tap in is a tap in that transitions with the direction of air flow. The suggestion was just an observation not a criticism. We install a lot of Envisions, we have ten systems in varying stages of installation right now. Once again, you have sharp looking install

[geodude]

The pricing may diffrent for your region. When I asked Waterfurnace about this, they told me that it was due to the fact that they manufacture a lot more dual capacity units then single stage ones. So we install all dual capacity Geo units!

[drsmith012]

Thanks geodude. I like it too which is why I posted the pic. I didn't mean to sound as if I thought it were a criticism.

[TC1984]

what about a hot water generator with the system ?
one dealer told me that they could sell me a tankless instant water heater and it would make hot water about as cheap as the hot water generator for the geo system could ... what do you all think ?

[drsmith012]

get the water generator and connect to a std electric tank water heater. Wrap it in insulation but do NOT connect it to electricity. Then run the output of the WH to the tankless. That way it will only heat if it needs to. For the past week I have had my water heater off. I am getting all my hot water from my HP. When it is not quite up to the challenge I turn my water back on. First a quarter power (120V) then if I have company I switch it to full power (240V). When I reserviced my house (400Amp) I anticipated installing a tankless electric heater. Haven't done so yet as I am assembling an air source heat pump water heater and hope to have that up and running this spring.

with 410a your unit will make more hot water for you in the winter than the summer. At least mine does.

[tecman]

what about a hot water generator with the system ?
one dealer told me that they could sell me a tankless instant water heater and it would make hot water about as cheap as the hot water generator for the geo system could ... what do you all think ?

To heat water to a temp takes a defined number of BTUs. Either a tank or tankless heater will require the same amount of BTUs to heat the water. A tankless can save since there is virtually no water in it that is maintained against insulation losses like a tank has. So just sitting a tank will lose heat and a tankless has little to lose, and later make up.

The option on a geo heat pump takes usually waisted heat from the system and uses it to preheat the water feeding your HW heater. Since this water will be warmer than the incoming cold water, it takes fewer BTUs to heat it up. It is not free, but very, very low cost energy going into your water heating.

paul

[geodude]

The desuper heater option is an excellent choice for PREHEATING the water. I recommend to install a seperate tank for this. I use an electric water heater tank as they are a lot cheaper to buy then a tank like a super store tank. Pipe the cold water into the first storage tank and pipe the hot line into the main water heater. You can gain a lot of savings in the summer when in the cooling mode. I notice more preheated water in the winter on my own install. That is because we have aprox. 400 cooling hours and 2400 heating hours.The rejected heat is less in the winter, but with more run time I save more on my hot water because of this( in the winter). A project we completed recently with a 6 ton Envision, we installed a 80 gallon water heater and did not hook it up to power,( we call them buffer tanks) piped it from the that tank into a tankless water heater and the home owner said the tankless water heater does not run much at all. The home is 4800 sq ft with four zones and has a gas tankless water heater and gas range and fireplace, every thing else is electric. The combined energy cost( gas and elec.) for december was 190.00! this is with zone temps set for 69 degrees heating and 73 for cooling 24/7

[aircooled53]

I agree with skippedover. Experience and service availability is the biggest part. As for brands in terms of efficency it is a toss up between ClimateMaster and Waterfurnace. The Waterfurnace Envision in three ton is the most efficent unit on the market but larger size Climatemasters just edge out the Waterfurnaces, but not buy that much. My contractor told me, between the two companies, it is who ever came out with the last model is whoever has the most efficent unit.

If you are going with a packaged unit you don't have to worry about the contractor properly brazing and getting the charge correct but on the other hand they have to properly design the ground loop or your system will suck. Unless they are extreamly familiar with soil conditions in the aera then a test hole should be in order. You could do this yourself.

Personally I like the Envision product. It is built much better than their previous genteration units. Just one thing to remember: It will get quieter as it gets older. The scroll compressors need some time to wear in. It is also slightly louder on low stage as well. However with everything inside it is still quieter than most every other system I have ever heard.

One last thing: GET A TWO STAGE. The price difference is effectively nothing (1.3% more for my install).

Looks ok for Waterfurnace,I like there new cabinet.

Geo-Thermal systems often have to come out of a deep hole to get the customer to notice.

[aruddick]

The pricing may diffrent for your region. When I asked Waterfurnace about this, they told me that it was due to the fact that they manufacture a lot more dual capacity units then single stage ones. So we install all dual capacity Geo units!

Have you ever been to the WFI factory. They have a unique way of manufactoring.