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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    wedged in freezer shelf
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICanHas View Post
    See the attachment here on the most recent post.

    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....HVAC-R-segment

    " EPA is exempting from the venting prohibition isobutane (R–600a) and R–441A, as refrigerant
    substitutes in household refrigerators, freezers, and combination refrigerators and freezers, and
    propane (R–290), as a refrigerant substitute in retail food refrigerators and freezers (stand-alone
    units only) "

    That's the gist of it. The finer details are further down in the document.



    Who's using multiple circuits to get around it? Adding a second compressor is an awfully expensive solution just to get around it, but having two sides each with a compressor and one side fitted with a MBP/LBP setup gives the versatility of completely independent operation and one side having the option to be freezer or refrigerator.
    Thanks ICANTSEE Attachments from here on my phone so I'll take a look later. The multiple circuits I've seen are nothing special. One tstat multiple circuits.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    4,159
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsiceman View Post
    Thanks ICANTSEE Attachments from here on my phone so I'll take a look later. The multiple circuits I've seen are nothing special. One tstat multiple circuits.
    On a self-contained hermetic unit with one zone? Self-contained and hermetic retail display case intended for commercial use (UL listed as) is is the only condition in which R-290 is permitted. Remote condenser is not permitted. It takes into account that 5oz of propane is unlikely to lead to issues in volume of space that such an appliance will likely be used in. A three door commercial kitchen reach-in is not a retail display. A failure of any one component can not release more than 5oz of refrigerant at any given time.

    5oz of R-290 is equivalent to 10-12oz of R22 simply because the same mass of refrigerant can flood twice the volume. Given that constraint, cooling capacity is still quite limited. So, a legal multi circuit system would have multiple sets of each component. Compressor, condenser, evaporator, even if they're all tied to same thermostat. But, you might as well zone them if you're going to have multiple circuits so you have better control over temperature.

    A household refrigerator is limited to 2oz of R441A or R600a only. R290 is prohibited. So, a logical dual circuit would be one for freezer, one for refrigerator.


    Quote Originally Posted by CFESAmasterEGSR View Post
    So what is the procedure for R-290? Seriously, hoshizaki is making ice machines running it now. True is making reach ins. I assume they're only for the European market for now but we'll be there soon enough. Or will the procedure be to just vent R-290 like guys did years ago with everything?
    It's going to be sometime as hydrocarbon is currently prohibited for such application. The current conditional allowance does not include ice machines or any other commercial kitchen equipment.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Tulsa
    Posts
    295
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    just found this .. holy chit this scary!

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Apache Junction, Arizona
    Posts
    500
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    glad your ok.. in interests of safety if I ever identify any substitute as flammable I will simply vent that puppy to the atmosphere..

    the hell with being politically correct..
    "I never lie because I don't fear anyone. You only lie when you're afraid." - John Gotti

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