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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4

    Boiler Purchase Help Please

    Hoping you can all help shed some light on recent quotes I've received for a new boiler purchase. My home is approx 2,800 sq ft and I have oil heat. I know very little about home heating systems - just trying to avoid a bad purchase. I currently have about a 20 year old Burnham with a chamber that is completely cracked and have received quotes of around $xxxx to fix. I think an upgrade is better option than fixing the current system. Can someone please provide some input on the following systems and quotes?

    Burnham V83 Cast Iron Boiler $xxxx
    Burnham MPO147 Cast Iron Boiler with Phase 3 Hot Water Heater $xxxx
    Peerless WBV $xxxx
    Energy Kinetics System 2000 $xxxx

    Thanks so much
    Last edited by BaldLoonie; 12-27-2007 at 10:57 AM. Reason: Site rules prohibit pricing questions

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,996

    Hate to state the obvious

    But the more expensive systems are better. No matter what yo get you'll want an indirect in the picture. 3 pass cast iron boilers like the MPO are the most efficent and easiest to clean. I assume the system 2000 includes a storage tank for HW. Probably the most expensive quote you've gotten.
    That's what I don't like about it. A simple Beckett burner, glass lined storage tank and a steel boiler doesn't justify the price in my book.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Camel City, NC
    Posts
    6,233

    Burnham

    What do you mean by cracked. Leaking water ?
    Are you the origional owner ? Do you have the warrenty papers that came with the boiler?
    Be safe not fast. body parts don't grow back

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,837
    Quote Originally Posted by selfemployed View Post
    What do you mean by cracked. Leaking water ?
    Are you the origional owner ? Do you have the warrenty papers that came with the boiler?
    He said the combustion chamber is cracked. That's not a catastrophe but then I can't see the condition of the unit from here. I put an addition on my house a few years ago that rendered by old Weil McLean oil boiler too small. I suffered through one winter with it but hey, it was 29-years old and didn't owe me anything. I gave it a nice little sendoff party and installed a nice new System 2000. Glad I did with the price of oil these days. I just finished replacing my old Armstrong AC unit with a nice new Bryant Evolution Heat Pump. Sure does my heart and wallet some good when I step out the door on a 40+ degree day and hear the heat pump sipping electricity instead of the boiler drinking oil at more than $3.00/gallon. The heat pump will know about 40% off my oil bill every year from here on! Made my air conditioning system a real investment with return on the dollars spent installing it. Win-win. The System 2000 is a low mass boiler, 90-seconds from cold start to 145-degree water circulating through the system. No huge cast iron mass to heat up. Do it. YOu'll be glad you did.
    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4
    Thanks for all of the input. Yes, it is the combustion chamber. I am told it is running at about 77% efficiency right now. I am having someone else come on Monday to give me a quote on a Buderus G215. How would this compare to the others, and specifically the System 2000?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,187
    One thing to remember on old boilers is: the 77% figure they compute is combustion efficiency. That means, when fully warmed up and burning at its peak, the system is running at 77% with 23% of the heat going up the flue. BUT, during warm up & cool down, that figure dives which is where AFUE or annual efficiency comes in. The 80-85% of a standard new boiler is far ahead of the annual efficiency of your 20 year old beast which is probably around 60% AFUE.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,996

    The G215

    is also a very nice 3 pass boiler. Buderus has the Logamatic controls. Pricey but it helps save fuel. I'd compare the quotes of the MPO, G215 and the S2000 and pick the one that gave you the best price. One system priced several thousand more then another would take years to get that payed back with just a few percentage points of better efficency.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    451
    Quote Originally Posted by johnsp View Post
    is also a very nice 3 pass boiler. Buderus has the Logamatic controls. Pricey but it helps save fuel. I'd compare the quotes of the MPO, G215 and the S2000 and pick the one that gave you the best price. One system priced several thousand more then another would take years to get that payed back with just a few percentage points of better efficency.
    Take it a step further, don't go on which one gives you the best price. Go with the best VALUE. Your not just buying a boiler your buying a custom system that a quality contractor should stand behind. That might cost more up front, but save you in the long run.
    IMO
    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes...that way you are a mile from them and have their shoes

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,837
    Hetrola's got it right. And you can't go by AFUE when comparing operating efficiencies. Visit the System 2000 website and read all about the inaccuracies of AFUE. www.energykinetics.com . Unless you've got a large radiant connected load, I'd go with a low mass boiler. They can start from a cold start, heat the room and be turned off and cooling down before a large mass boiler is even heating. The energy manager on the System 2000 is better at recovering heat than a temperature reset control when the boiler is connected to a burnt air connected load, as with copper finned baseboard. The type of connected load could make a big difference in what I'd recommend to a client. Big old cast iron radiators and a large water mass, I'd likely go with the Buderus with reset capability. Copper finned baseboard, I'd go with the System 2000. Being able to match the boiler to the connected load is way ahead of just picking out a boiler on the color of the jacket. Too many companies are recommending equipment based on the cruise they get for selling 'X' number of units in a year. That type of marketing is invisible to the homeowner but very harmful to them if the boiler is not spec'ed properly.
    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

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