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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    6

    Confused How to get cool...during winter

    I was recently called to a 5 story building in down town New York City. They are requesting an A/C system on the 4th floor office area....approx. 1,500 sq.ft. We cannnot disturb 5th floor tenants ....so a rooftop unit is out of the question.

    What are my options?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    DC Metro Area (MD)
    Posts
    3,371
    How are the other 4 floors cooled, if they are at all? Sounds like an older building.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    2,652
    First thing I would look at.....

    http://www.fujitsugeneral.com/
    There are 3 ways to do anything in life; Good, Fast, Slow: You can pick any 2.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    I don't know
    Posts
    2,909
    How about operable windows? Better IAQ is an added bonus.

    Seriously, it doesn't make sense to run refrigerated a/c in the winter when air exchange will accomplish the same thing at a fraction of the cost.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    So. NH
    Posts
    797
    Not an HVAC pro but having a industrial facilities background I think I can offer a suggestion here. All the systems I dealt with had an "economizer" function so if outdoor air met cooling requirements it would use outdoor air instead of mechanical cooling. Not sure if this could apply but worth a thought

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    6

    Question

    No other floors are cooled. NO window a/c's allowed. A ductless minisplit system looks like answer but what about low outside temp. Will it work? Never have installed a A/C unit during winter.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    6
    Air exchanger will require ducting ....not an option

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    So. NH
    Posts
    797
    How is the building heated?
    My though is why is it they require cooling when they should not? I know it's the 4th floor but is there something producing heat?
    Last edited by stvc; 12-27-2007 at 02:44 AM. Reason: added thought

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,429
    Quote Originally Posted by omaretwn View Post
    Air exchanger will require ducting ....not an option
    So you have been painted into a corner with the following,
    slim pickins and a few not so realisitic options:

    1. Go outside once an hour or so

    2. Open the windows

    3. Air exchanger or ERV

    4. Add a wall exhauster fan with make-up.
    __ NO one said it had to be Pretty.

    http://www.lorencook.com/Products/prod2.asp?MODEL=ACWB


    5. Movin Cool model CM12 [ Ceiling Mounted 12,000 BTUH] or similar ceiling units with outside air provided through the wall.

    http://movincool.com/portable-air-conditioner/cm12.php

    Two or three (?) one-ton units for 1,500 square feet

    6. CARRIER model 50AH RoomTop unit in 3 to 5 ton capacities

    http://www.commercial.carrier.com/co..._PRD14,00.html


    7. Daikin A/C ... 1,500 square feet may require 3 ceiling units

    Rooftop condenser location and running refrigerant lines are also required.
    However, this is a 4th floor office so refrigerant lines would have to pass through a small part of the 5th floor.

    http://www.daikinac.com/commercial/p...p?sec=products
    Last edited by dan sw fl; 12-27-2007 at 06:46 AM.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Orange County, New York
    Posts
    1,461
    The fujitsu ductless splits can operate down to an ambient of 0 degrees F.

    They have ceiling mount so the offices do not need wall hung evaporators. Nice equipment.

    Reasonable priced as well. Condensers can mount on the roof, or even off the side of the building if permitted.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Derby City
    Posts
    3,973
    ductless mini split is definitely the answer. No a/c in this building??!!

    Anyway, as was mentioned, these can be ordered with low ambient accessory. There are a number of manufacturers that have these available and can be ceiling, wall, or console mounted. All that would be routed between indoor and outdoor is power and control wiring along with refrigeration lines. Also condensate pump is used for condensate removal. Keep in mind where you will route this line.

    Don't anyone go crazy on me, but I have seen the outdoor units mounted successfully above a drop ceiling and they operated just fine. Also, low ambient became a non-issue.

    all the best, Irish.
    Everyone has a purpose in life..........even if it's to be a bad example.

    Seek first to understand, before seeking to be understood.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Frederick, MD
    Posts
    81
    For small systems, you could use a domestic water source for a condenser loop. This can be expensive and is somewhat wasteful, but I've seen a few. The water goes to waste.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Orange County, New York
    Posts
    1,461
    Quote Originally Posted by Irishmist View Post

    Don't anyone go crazy on me, but I have seen the outdoor units mounted successfully above a drop ceiling and they operated just fine. Also, low ambient became a non-issue.
    I cringe when I see this but I have seen them as well. I guess if there is some type of exhaust fan for the area it could be entertained. Cross ventilation of some sort if the property manager allows.

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